Imagine a world where you could simplify your teaching methods, embrace the art of minimalism, and still deliver a top-notch educational experience. Sounds too good to be true? Join us as we chat with international educators and authors Tammy Musiasky-Borniman and Christine Arnold to uncover the secrets behind their groundbreaking book, The Minimalist Teacher.
In our conversation, we journey through the nuances of international education, the importance of adaptability, and how minimalism can reshape our professional and personal lives. Tammy and Christine share their experiences of living in different cultures, finding balance in their lives, and the crucial role of purpose, prioritization, and paring down. We also examine the urgent/important matrix as a powerful tool to help you focus on what truly matters.
As we wrap up, we reflect on the profound impact of minimalism and self-care in our lives and encourage you to explore The Minimalist Teacher for yourself. So, why not gift yourself the opportunity to transform your teaching and life? Listen in, embrace the change, and stand in the light with us on this enlightening episode.
Connect with Tammy and Christine:
Imagine a world where you could simplify your teaching methods, embrace the art of minimalism, and still deliver a top-notch educational experience. Sounds too good to be true? Join us as we chat with international educators and authors Tammy Musiasky-Borniman and Christine Arnold to uncover the secrets behind their groundbreaking book, The Minimalist Teacher.
In our conversation, we journey through the nuances of international education, the importance of adaptability, and how minimalism can reshape our professional and personal lives. Tammy and Christine share their experiences of living in different cultures, finding balance in their lives, and the crucial role of purpose, prioritization, and paring down. We also examine the urgent/important matrix as a powerful tool to help you focus on what truly matters.
As we wrap up, we reflect on the profound impact of minimalism and self-care in our lives and encourage you to explore The Minimalist Teacher for yourself. So, why not gift yourself the opportunity to transform your teaching and life? Listen in, embrace the change, and stand in the light with us on this enlightening episode.
Connect with Tammy and Christine:
Welcome to SEL in EDU.
Speaker 2:Where we discuss all things social and emotional and education. I'm Krista And I'm Craig And we are your host on this journey.
Speaker 1:This podcast is created in partnership with Pennsylvania ASCD. Hello, sel and EDU family, thank you for joining us. We are now on episode 33. Craig, we made it to 33. How are you today?
Speaker 2:You know I am feeling real good at 33. This is like the best days of my life. Let's go. Let's go. Come on spring And you know a little, you know like exfoliation. you know, just get ready.
Speaker 1:I like this. Yes, it's very much around self care and taking care of ourselves. Looking at the spring coming up, you're, you know, going and moving and shaking from place to place. And so, and speaking of place to place, we have with us two amazing authors who are certainly well traveled and have lived in place to place. So, craig, i'm so excited that we have with us two ASCD authors, tammy Musiasky-Borniman and Christine Arnold. So let me give the bios and then we will get them introduced. So Tammy Musiasky-Borniman is an international education advisor, teacher, coach and classroom teacher who has taught and led in Singapore, new York City and Edmonton, canada. She is past president of ASCD emerging leaders alumni affiliate and she is actually our current interim executive director Actually, not interim, you're just the executive director now.
Speaker 1:Yes, she values and clarity and has created a coaching model centered on the idea of coaching teachers. in short, flexible and focused chunks of time with personalized content. Musiasky-Borniman has contributed content to ASCD in service, ASCD Express Illinois, ASCD's newsletter, Ed Week, teacher blog and achieve the core about student engagement, inclusion agency and ways to develop classroom and school culture. With us we also have CY Arnold. She is an Australian educator working both at home and abroad. She has worked in Australia, Japan, Singapore and Belgium as a teacher, coach, mentor, co-teacher, coordinator, tutor and supervisor from early childhood education to adult education in the university sector. Her dedication to the field of education has led her to serve on the board of the Singapore chapter of SANA S-E-N-I-A I hope I pronounced that correctly when getting a nod here And she has published educational articles and presents at various international and Australian conferences. Her interests in education include exploring research-based pedagogy and practice, inclusive education, quality early childhood education, inquiry and promoting well-being for our students and teaching colleagues. Welcome, Tammy and Christine. We are so happy to have you both.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having us Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1:Very nice to be here. I think one of the first things I would love to ask you about is tell me about how you both met. I mean, I know that you have some crossover with some of the locations that you've worked in, but how you met and what led you to international education.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. We met in Singapore. We happened to start teaching at the same school in Singapore and our classrooms were right next to each other, so we were kind of in this onboarding team, together doing the same orientation, and the two of us, along with a couple of other people, just click straight away And being right next to each other, we were always talking and communicating. We ended up having like breakfast before school together every day and just became a really tight knit team. And just for myself, how I got into international education I taught in Australia before I left and I happened to work with another lady who worked overseas and she was like you've got to do it, you will love it. International schools are the place to be. And so I looked into it, thinking like, oh, i'll just go for two years and come back again and never went back again. So it's definitely a great place to be.
Speaker 4:So my entry into international education was actually supposed to start sooner than it did. I applied for a teaching position in England actually and got my visa sorted out, and then decided not to go. It wasn't the right time, just budget wise, and I wasn't quite ready to enter international teaching yet, but I started. I did a pretty big change. Moving from Edmonton, canada, to New York City, i realized how much I had to speed myself up a little bit once I had changed that kind of culture. So I moved in 2006 because in Edmonton there's never really a teacher shortage in Canada, and so I was looking for something more permanent. So I moved to New York City and then spent a number of years there and then moved to Singapore after that And now although I'm back in the US, in the Pacific middle of the ocean, and so I've been doing some work here the last couple of years. So it's been lots of fun moving around and meeting teachers in different places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and even more specifically, you're in Hawaii, the big island I sure am, yeah, and it gorgeous there, and you were talking about culture and just moving from Canada to New York City. But, looking at all the countries that you've been in, you really do need to be adaptable and flexible, and I think one of the things that I admire about both of you is that you really embrace and learn about the cultures that you're living in, and I'm wondering if you could speak to that and then maybe how that led to the creation of your book called The Minimalist Teacher.
Speaker 3:Sure, Yeah, absolutely. I went from Australia, which is very focused on or was it the time, Maybe it's changed now, I don't know But it was very focused on this whole child idea and the parents were always asking did they have lots of friends, Are they good at sports? And then went from there to Asia, where it was very this academic focus, really wanting the students to be high achieving, But within the international school, of course, I had families from all over the world with their own values and their own ideas and things like that as well. So I think, yeah, you do have to learn very quickly that you are surrounded by differences And sometimes our innate thing is to go. That's different, that's wrong. But you really have to learn quickly to look for the value and the positives in what you see.
Speaker 3:And I think you know, leading on from that, going into minimalism, part of the moving around everywhere is considering you know how much you need to take with you and what is valuable to have with you as you move around the world. And I think that was a big foundational point for us, thinking about minimalism and living that experience of what is valuable, what isn't actually needed and not just, you know, is nice or a want. I'll let Tammy take over from there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure, i feel like, just as Christine was talking, i was thinking about like the kind of need to know things too, right? So when you're moving between places, what are the things mentally that I need to kind of stow away for now, as I'm learning a new culture, and that was surprising for me because I knew I was going to be learning new things, but I didn't realize the amount of stuff I had to like not really think about anymore because it wasn't applicable with the communities that I was working in. And that for me, i think, was something that always comes to mind, is the beginning of our first school year in Singapore in particular. I remember we had a large population of Japanese families and I just had to like unlearn that some people don't shake hands, so something simple like that, like I don't need to extend my hand because that's not what's part of someone else's culture, and so that was something that you know it sticks out to me.
Speaker 4:I remember standing on the playground actually, and being in front of this father and I'm like, oh, i need to keep my hands down, but things like that and just when it comes into teaching too, like some of the things that I brought with me from New York City, worked in that, in that school culture there, but just didn't. I didn't need to bring that with me into this new culture, which for me was refreshing because I was stepping into an environment that was more aligned to my pedagogical beliefs and that felt really good to be able to focus on those kinds of things rather than stuff that I didn't think was relevant or helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, i'm curious for both of you at this time what's the? I guess, what's the state of education? What are teachers talking about in a place where you are?
Speaker 4:Right now there's a bunch of things, actually something that's come up in the news that directly relates to health and safety. Is the town that I live, or not even the town, the village that's up the hill from us is really having some health issues with pests, and so, like there's been teachers and families that are protesting the DOE because it's not healthy and safe for teachers and, well, anybody in the building. And so that really comes to mind when we're living in this kind of environment because I'm in it's a fairly rural island like you have some fairly secluded areas And so getting resources to people sometimes a challenge to meet needs, and when we're talking about meeting the needs of our communities, those are the basic ones right. Like we need our students and teachers to feel safe in the environment that they're in, and of course, this is not all schools. This is literally one school on our island, but we're a big island with not a lot of schools, so it makes the news right.
Speaker 4:It's a statewide thing that's being talked about, but also kind of like anywhere we know teachers in lots of places and there's a lot of conversations still just like all the stuff that teachers always have to do, that are always on their plates and nothing is ever removed. And that's something that Christine and I talk a lot about when we're doing webinars and talking with teachers is like what are the things that? how do we look at the stuff that we're doing and just do away with some things and do what we know is good and do it better? So that's a consistent thing that I hear it here and I hear it from teachers in different places as well. What else, christine?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I don't want to speak for the Netherlands per se, because international schools can be a little bit of an island sometimes, but I definitely have heard a lot of conversations post pandemic about some of the changes and challenges that we've seen with our student population, whatever the cause may be of that, but it used to be this like you'd have a more challenging year and then you'd have an easier year and you'd kind of get used to that balance back and forth, whereas now it seems to be a challenging year every year. And what is happening there with these cohorts of kids? Is it the pandemic? Is it a group of kids that have spent a couple of years at home, or is there more anxiety in the community Like what is happening and what can we do about it without the ever increasing workload over our classroom stages?
Speaker 1:Yeah, i think that's really important. What you've just said there is that we need to be healthy ourselves, and I know that Craig and I talk a lot about self care, and so how are we taking care of ourselves so that we can best support our students in front of us? And I think, craig, were you going to add into that.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just going to, I guess, lean into a wonderful book that should be, you know, kind of a Bible for so many or a canon for so many educators globally. And so, in the midst of, or just as part of the backdrop of what you've just shared about what some of the educators in your communities are talking about and are facing I know he, I'm in a K-A community as well You know a lot of educators are exhausted. It seems as if the number of tasks are innumerable. Our students come with a lot of needs. Some of it is trauma informed, Some of it is, you know, some level of insecurity, whether or not it's housing insecurity, unemployment, a host of things that you know they are managing.
Speaker 2:And people talk about us being post pandemic because we're not wearing masks. but we've not. we've not really experienced the level of healing that is necessary to say, okay, we're years beyond this. People are a little bit better from a physical well-being perspective, but from a mental well-being perspective we're carrying a lot, And I know that that contributes to what teachers are also facing, as well as human beings, and, you know, great support to the students and educators before them. But, as I, you know, started, you have an incredible cannon for the people, minimalist teacher and love for you to just kind of share. you know a little bit more. What are you learning about yourselves, as well as what are you learning about the educators that you're working with, who really are tapping into the magic of the minimalist teacher?
Speaker 4:I find myself going back to one of our. We have this triple P framework thinking about our purpose, prioritizing and paring down. And in my current role as a director of teaching and learning at a small school, I'm always asking myself if I'm asking teachers to do something, what is the purpose behind it? Because I don't want them to feel that burden of like oh man, here comes Tammy, she's got something else to do. Because I know that happens And we're in a tough time right now because teachers are writing reports And so you know that's a lot of mental energy for them. I remember it well. But I do have to be very thoughtful about the things that I'm asking for and why. So I'm always really cognizant of saying this is what, something that we need to do or we're thinking about doing, and here's why. And so teachers respond well to that.
Speaker 4:I find when you give the reason behind it, it takes sometimes, you know, longer conversations. It's not just like a one-time thing, because it's important for everyone to understand why we're doing something that we're doing. But that's something I definitely go to And it's a pretty simple thing to do. But I know that it's not always a front of mind thing for people when there's so many things to think about. But just asking the purpose behind something is so helpful because it really makes me slow down a little bit and just be more thoughtful about the things that are. You know, i've got my list of stuff to talk about. I'm like, well, what are the things I really need to focus on right now? because the purpose, you know, maybe the purpose is greater right now or the priority for this is higher. So that's kind of one of the most tangible things that I live from our own writing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure I would agree with Tammy there. I think I'm getting a reputation with my colleagues who are just constantly going why are we doing this? What is the purpose of this? But you do want to keep bringing it back to that and focusing in on the priorities. I think a huge thing for me in my professional work is the battle with time, really being conscious of time And before I get to school I kind of say no, i'm leaving at this time today and that's it. And I tell the teachers next door that I work with and I say I'm leaving by this time today and I really try and stick to my guns and have that boundary there of not taking things home and things like that And a game changer for me recently as well as to have the three top priorities for the day. These are the things I'm going to get done.
Speaker 3:The work list, the to-do list for teachers, is never over. It's never done. But if I can pick a couple of things that I definitely want to achieve in my day, it really does help me feel like I've succeeded and I've done something efficient that day. So just a couple of little shifts like that. I still have a messy desk. I still have things left on my to-do list, but thinking all the time about the priorities and the purpose and just coming up with a few what is my main focus for today have really helped me in my own practice.
Speaker 1:And what I'm hearing, not just in this conversation but from knowing your day-to-day lives, is that you live this not just in education, but you're saying it's a framework of philosophy that you've it seems to me you've just taken on, and so it's not just in education but it's in how you interact with people and your personal lives as well. And so you've talked about the purpose and the prioritization. And then there's the paring down piece And that's something that I will fully admit, even all the SEL and EDU family out here Tammy helps me with on a regular basis and with the prioritizing. It's good to have friends like this in your life who help you, kind of. And so I know, sometimes I look around and I'm like I don't know what to do, like maybe I don't need all of this stuff.
Speaker 1:Or you go into a classroom and you have other teachers, stuff And I mean I hold on to files and things because I'm afraid of letting go of it. But you talk a lot in this book about what you can do with things or ways of approaching things so that we're not. We're being careful with waste as well, not just mental waste, but physical waste. So I'm talking a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, i mean we frame it again around the triple P. So if you're thinking about your work environment, for example, like, do an audit of the room that you're in, the workspace that you're in, and think what is the purpose for everything that I have around me and what do I need in that space for me to fulfill that purpose? And then what can I get rid of? You know, for my room that I'm sitting in right now, i've got the chair over here. What do I need for that chair? It needs to be comfy so I can sit and read and have my little coffee tray next to it and things like that So everything else can go. I don't need anything else in that space.
Speaker 3:So, really following that triple P again to help you declutter and get rid of things And I know it can be really tricky, people have emotional attachments to objects and it can be really, really challenging But doing little tricks for yourself, like put the things that you're not sure about in a box, put a date on it And then if you have not needed to open that thing for that amount of time, you don't need it anymore and you can get rid of it. So you can form these little habits to help you. Assist you in getting rid of things that you're not sure whether you need or not.
Speaker 4:Something that we often talk about too is because we all have spaces that we need to be in.
Speaker 4:So if we're thinking about a workspace, this is an easy entry point for people if they're thinking about minimizing what they have in spaces. But just start with one spot, like maybe it's one cupboard that you are afraid to open and that's the daunting spot, but maybe that's the door that you open, literally to just kind of get started. If you're thinking about bringing in a minimalist approach into your physical environment, we're not saying like, don't have anything in it at all. We're saying what are the things that add value for you when you're in that space? So that's why, as a teacher, usually you don't have all your stuff out all year long, because you don't need it all at the same time, and so that's why cupboards need to be organized so you can shift things in and out easier. And if you have a bunch of stuff in there that's been living there for 20 years from another bunch of teachers, you really have to get rid of it, because we know there's no use for it, there's no value, it's just taking up physical space and that's stressful.
Speaker 2:So one other thing that I'm curious about was one. There's a couple of anecdotes. Chris and Tammy, you all had this wonderful device that I got introduced to last summer called the Remarkable. It was a game changer for me because I am one of those educators who needs a special notebook, for this notebook is for this thing. This other notebook was for something else, and I wind up having like 16 notebooks sitting around and then I would get upset when I forgot the one notebook I needed for that one business, you know entity or thing that I was working on. And so for those who are like, okay, craig, what is this remarkable thing, you know it's a digital notebook that has all kind of handy-dandy to states and Tammy and Chris, who sent me some tools that have changed my life, but it has the ability to sync to your computer. You can tag things on your notes in the different templates so you can run calendars and all This was a game changer for me, but it was a shift in mindset from something that I thought I needed to do as an educator to make sure that each particular thing had its own special space in my life.
Speaker 2:It wasn't because of an emotional attachment, but I felt like it was a way of control for me.
Speaker 2:So, with the Remarkable, i have learned that I don't need to carry a single notebook for each individual project or subject area or each meeting that I go to, that this particular device helped me to pull everything together, and it contributed to me being more focused, having one thing that I carried with me.
Speaker 2:But one of the, i believe, life lessons that I took from both of you that I really still hold dear is about sustainability of your soul and spirit, and so, when we're having these conversations about the emotional attachment that I heard Christine talk about to things, and I heard Tammy talk about how stressful it can be to have so many things you're trying to hold on to, i really thought during the summer about what are small ways that I can take care of myself, and by investing in that tool was very helpful. And so, as I bring all things full circle, what are the? I guess? what are you hearing from teachers who come back to you and talk to you about a presentation that they experienced with you, or they read your book and how they've made some changes in their life that have been helpful to them? What are you hearing from educators today about the impact and influence you've had on their lives.
Speaker 4:So teachers have come back to us, or even right after a session, and say how much they value our urgent, important matrix as a tool to help them prioritize, because we have this way of having things that we think are important and urgent masked that are really not. So it's important to answer emails, yes, but is that your highest priority for that section of time in your day or for that day? Probably not. That's something that can probably be much lower on your priority list. So just the use of that tool where people can sort out these are a bunch of things I need to think about that take up space in my life and I need to sort them out so that I can focus on one or two things that are really going to help me maintain focus and not feel overburdened.
Speaker 4:We have heard, too, that we're helping people siphon through what they are already are doing. Someone read the book and said I didn't finish reading the book and felt like I had to do a bunch of new things. I'm looking at what I'm doing right now in front of me and I'm working through it. I have questions now to help me think about things, but she didn't feel like it was something else to do, because it was helping her with what she was already doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just adding on to that, i've been lucky enough at my school to be able to do a collab last year and this year and do a book study with the book, and both groups that I've done it with have separately and independently expressed how they feel it's like group therapy coming along and doing the book study. So it's really brought home to me that teachers may not always feel listened to or like their lived experience is understood. They don't get a chance to air what's going on with them and how they're feeling about their profession, and so I think giving people an avenue in which to talk about it and feel validated and like maybe they have some tools to action, to make some changes, i think has been a really big one with the people my colleagues at my school.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate here. Then there's these actionable tools within the book, but then the fact that the book can be read and discussed collaboratively is a tool in and of itself, because you can talk through and, like, i'm not the only one, and hearing Craig talk about the remarkable had me thinking back to a process that I now use that, tammy, you developed and created something that you would put up on your website for free, and I don't even know if you remember this, but every Sunday I sit down and I write all the tasks that I have to do for the week And then I fill in my schedule and the remarkable and I divide those tasks up into the days when I need to have them done. And, like right now, i'm sitting in a spot where I didn't really do that this week and I don't really know. I have a list, but I don't really know what's urgent and what's important and after this, this, we're done recording. I need to go figure that out because I don't know where to start right now and so I haven't really started anything.
Speaker 1:You know, you kind of get frozen, but this is a routine that I have every Sunday that really helps me be more efficient and I would not have devised that on my own, but in sitting down and having these collaborative conversations and like, oh, this is what works for me, this is So. We're ultimately talking about making our lives better and more efficient and happier and more fulfilling when we're looking at what do we need and what's important, and so I think sometimes there's that misconception about minimalism. Well, you're just getting rid of everything and living without anything and I'm seeing some head nods there. So thank you for that, for those tips and the tricks and the strategies and just putting your experiences into this book, and I think again I mentioned that it's very meaningful because you fully embrace and live this. This wasn't something you're like. Well, what's something that's a hot topic, that, like this, is a lifestyle and a mindset, like Craig had said.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think it's important as you're talking about your routine on Sundays, right, it's important to remind ourselves and just be really aware that you can change your routines too, so you don't have to be like pigeonhole yourself into like this is when I'm going to do this and this is when I'm going to do this. That's not realistic and also very stressful. That's something that stresses me out when I think that I like have to really commit to like one thing and just do that all the time. It's important to be aware of when you need to make those changes in those kinds of routines. So if you tried out a prioritization tool and it was working great for a month, but then you're like, oh, i find myself slipping, you have to be aware to recognize why that is and what's the small change that you can make so that you can get back into a routine of wanting to be efficient and being productive and finding value in the things that you're doing. So it's important to recognize that.
Speaker 2:I'm curious what do you consider to be your superpower at this time?
Speaker 1:I love the looks. This is the awesome question. I always say that, craig, when you mentioned that.
Speaker 4:And I knew that this is a question that Craig asked, and I still feel unprepared. It's a really hard question, christine are you ready to answer?
Speaker 3:I did not know this was coming, so I am in shock. I'm just going to say the first thing that pops into my head, i think my ability to see things from other people's perspective. I think that has. You know, i've had a lot of emotions in my life. I've been a very emotional person and at certain points of my life I thought it was a weakness. But as I'm getting older I'm realizing that it is a strength to be able to sort of have that empathy for other people and their situation. So I'm going to go with that one, that's a good one.
Speaker 4:I like it For myself. I think one of my superpowers is that I remain fairly calm in even stressful situations and that other people recognize that in me too. We did an activity at a training that I was doing a couple weeks ago and that was overwhelmingly a word that came up about me, like serenity and calmness, and I'm glad people see that, because I do feel that often, even though it's not always what I think, what's going on in my head. But outwardly I try to remain calm because I know that there's a lot of stressful things in life and in education, and getting overwhelmed by things that I can't control is not worth it. It's hard to kind of put some of those things to the side and just think about okay, this is what I can control, this is what I'm going to focus on, so I'm going to try to be calm about it as much as possible.
Speaker 2:One of the reasons why I ask that question is it's sometimes daunting to think of yourself and think okay, i am actually doing something of influence and impact in the world, and what might be the story and legacy that people are carrying with them about your example or your presence? and I think that it's always important to remind yourself that you, too, are making an incredible difference. Both of you are powerful beyond measure because you chose to share and in those stories tips, you open up your classrooms, you know, to other people, and not everyone is willing to do that, and so I, you know. I am really grateful that both of you have chosen to do so and look at what, look at how the world is a better place because of it.
Speaker 3:Thank you, craig. That's lovely. I think I'm going to record that as my morning affirmation. Thank you, craig, that was amazing.
Speaker 2:That's what we do. We have to uplift and keep our hearts connected. That's the hard work, crystal. what's on your mind, what's on your heart? Let's see you.
Speaker 1:It's just really full. My heart's very full. I'm just really proud to know both of you and to get a chance to learn and work with you. I'm reminded that I'll be honest. when we got into the podcasting and I know that Tammy and Christine can relate to this I'm like, oh, this will be fun. There's a lot of work that goes into having these come out, but the work is so worth it because every time I get to learn from people like both of you, i feel so fulfilled.
Speaker 1:at the end of our time together, i want to go out and do good in the world and clean my desk and get my stuff in order and prioritize. I feel inspired. I feel like I can do it. I think that that's the beauty of both of you and the book that you've written, and that other people are going to get a chance to experience that as a result of listening to the podcast too. I know we do put this in the session notes, but how can people get a hold of you? if they want to, we are going to link to the book. We do have your website, your ASCD column, your social media, but could you say it Just what is the best way to get a hold of you so that those who are listening can tap in. Yes, thank, you.
Speaker 4:So my handle on Twitter is plan Z PLS. That's my company name, plan Z Professional Learning Services, and so that's my handle on Twitter, and then my email is tammy at planzplservicescom, so those are probably the easiest ways to get in touch. Yeah, tammy is more active with the things. That's part of me. Preserving my time is not doing too much, but I'm on.
Speaker 3:Twitter as well, sometimes at C Arnold 004. I'm on Twitter as well. I'm on Twitter as well. I'm on Twitter as well. I'm on Twitter as well. I'm on Twitter as well, sometimes at C Arnold 005. And I'm reachable via the plan Z as well. So thank you for that, krista.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, it has been an incredible, incredible conversation. So if you, sel and EDU family have not gotten a copy of the minimalist teacher, you got to get on it, check out our resources. You got to make sure that you get two copies, don't just get one. Get one for you and get one for a friend, because that is a gift that keeps on getting, and until we meet again on this podcast, where we just want you to hold, you and someone you love dear, real tight. And we got the spring coming, baby, yes, we do. Hold tight and make sure you stand and love and lead and teach in the light. We love you. We look forward to talking to you against it.