SEL in EDU
059: Embracing Emotional Resilience: Navigating Parenthood, Education, and Technology with Stephanie Brown and Don Sturm
What happens when a chaotic mix-up with car keys leads to an unexpectedly hilarious adventure? Krista shares her comedic and stressful encounter with rental companies in our latest SEL in EDU episode. Meanwhile, Craig opens up about his emotional ups and downs, and his desperate need for a peaceful retreat. These personal moments set the scene for an insightful conversation with our guests, Stephanie Brown and Don Sturm, who enlighten us on the balance of emotional resilience in our roles as educators and caregivers.
We delve into how technology shapes modern parenting, exploring how it can challenge and enrich family dynamics. Reflecting on our experiences, we touch on creating and maintaining boundaries, inspired by Jennifer Wallace's thought-provoking book Never Enough. The conversation extends to the inclusive nature of the term "caregivers," highlighting its importance in fostering a supportive environment for all children. Stephanie and Don add depth with their invaluable insights into fostering healthy relationships at home and in educational settings.
From the joyful chaos of family bonding over cooking to the light-hearted musings about everyday choices like whether or not to wear stockings, we cover it all! Our discussion emphasizes the critical role of empathy, the value of laughter, and embracing imperfections. Join us for a heartfelt wrap-up as we encourage you to cherish your loved ones, model emotional resilience, and confidently continue your social-emotional learning journey. Whether you're a parent, educator, or caregiver, this episode offers something meaningful to take away.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
- Connect with Stephanie and Don on Instagram.
- Listen to their CareU Podcast
What happens when a chaotic mix-up with car keys leads to an unexpectedly hilarious adventure? Krista shares her comedic and stressful encounter with rental companies in our latest SEL in EDU episode. Meanwhile, Craig opens up about his emotional ups and downs, and his desperate need for a peaceful retreat. These personal moments set the scene for an insightful conversation with our guests, Stephanie Brown and Don Sturm, who enlighten us on the balance of emotional resilience in our roles as educators and caregivers.
We delve into how technology shapes modern parenting, exploring how it can challenge and enrich family dynamics. Reflecting on our experiences, we touch on creating and maintaining boundaries, inspired by Jennifer Wallace's thought-provoking book Never Enough. The conversation extends to the inclusive nature of the term "caregivers," highlighting its importance in fostering a supportive environment for all children. Stephanie and Don add depth with their invaluable insights into fostering healthy relationships at home and in educational settings.
From the joyful chaos of family bonding over cooking to the light-hearted musings about everyday choices like whether or not to wear stockings, we cover it all! Our discussion emphasizes the critical role of empathy, the value of laughter, and embracing imperfections. Join us for a heartfelt wrap-up as we encourage you to cherish your loved ones, model emotional resilience, and confidently continue your social-emotional learning journey. Whether you're a parent, educator, or caregiver, this episode offers something meaningful to take away.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
- Connect with Stephanie and Don on Instagram.
- Listen to their CareU Podcast
Welcome to SEL in EDU where we discuss all things social and emotional in education. I'm Krista and I'm Craig and we are your hosts on this journey. All right, all right, all right. Sel EDU, family, krista, how you holding up these days? We are still in winter, it's just been interesting holding up.
Speaker 1:These days we are still in winter. It's just been interesting. We are, and we always talk about this because by the time people hear this podcast it'll be spring. But, craig, I'm going to steal one of your words, because when we first got on, you said it was a robust day, and the guests and I and you were talking about that and I've been on the road for two weeks.
Speaker 1:I just got home. I was doing some work out in Illinois but unfortunately I didn't get to see our guests because I wasn't close up there. But I left on Tuesday. I had to run out to the airport. I grabbed the car keys that were sitting next to my computer. It was one of those cars that you couldn't plug. You didn't have to put the key in the ignition. So I got in, started the car, drove the half an hour back to St Louis, dropped off the car, got on. You know where I needed to be? To my gate, 10 minutes before boarding. I look in my bag and I have the set of car keys. I'm like what just happened? I'm like, okay, dang, okay, I need to mail these back. Well, I land in Philly and my phone is blowing up. That my colleague.
Speaker 1:I was working with somebody from another company couldn't find his car keys. So what ended up happening is I grabbed his car keys from another company, took them, put them in the car, started it because I had my keys in the bag. So now I've been trying to get ahold of both car companies to like you're you're 2000 feet from each other. Can you please just walk those other keys over to the other company so that I'm not paying $250. Um, and they kind of won't. They won't play nice with each other because they don't like each other and I'm like. So I'm having a robust day. I just mailed back my car keys, so I don't, but I'm looking at a $250 charge to cover my friend's keys Cause I took the wrong ones. That's all. How are you? How are you? Do you have a robust story to share?
Speaker 2:I'm just like this is a conversation one should have over drinks. I'm like good gracious that's something, Right.
Speaker 1:I talked to the lady on Avis and she's like oh okay, she did not help me.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, for those Avis listeners out here and other car rental agencies, there's no animosity from SEL and EDU towards y'all. We need y'all to get us where we need to get us going.
Speaker 1:Please help Please help.
Speaker 2:Hopefully by the time this podcast comes out like that has been resolved in a beautiful way. I look forward to you know a wonderful story. We need a lifetime or Hallmark special ending here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I might go back into this. I have a new program that I can edit the video based on taking out text, and I think I'm going to bleep out the cargo.
Speaker 2:Okay, whatever, whatever you know floats your world Like I understand you got to bleep out the car. Okay, whatever floats your world, I understand you got to do, we got to do, we got to do. I will say because I know we have wonderful guests that we want to, I can't wait to dig into. I will say, yes, I started my.
Speaker 2:I'm in what feels like a tsunami of things and so I'm carrying a lot of emotions. Some of them are mine, some of them are different personalities. I want to return some of this stuff back to people like I don't, I don't need your energy this way. I don't understand why I hijack my spirit. I don't know whether I am Craig Aarons Martin as we speak, I could be the avatar that is sitting up on this thing, but we gonna roll the way we roll. If this podcast was just on what it means to wake up and have a shit show of a day, I'd call Robux, because this is real, this SEL like for real, for real EDU. Hello Sometime. We got shit shows and we're going to work through it.
Speaker 1:Yep personal groups. It's a philosophy. We have to model this in our personal lives so that we can show up the way we need as professionals.
Speaker 2:Look, I'm just saying I feel like I you know, this is one of them days where I'm like I would you know could be on Bourbon Street, and I know that it is noon, it's 12 o'clock. Somewhere I got a beverage in my hand or a little little Baileys in my cup and just let me walk and be, just have the sun outside and a cute puppy and I'm going to be okay. I'm going to figure this thing out. So let's just go ahead and get on in, because we've got great guests who are here. They are laughing.
Speaker 2:Yes, they are. We are on a whole different level today and S-E-L-E-E-D family child. I'm just telling you, if you've got stockings on, you're going to pull them off. You're going to. It's going to be hot. I'm just saying. I'm just saying it's going to be, it's going to be. It's a whole new level of Craig. Hey, I'm just saying, and people are like, well, who's still wearing stockings? Huh, might be the question. What happened? You know, if you're stillized, I don't know, let's go ahead and plug into today's guest Kristen let's talk about. They're going to match us in this. So we have Stephanie Brown.
Speaker 1:Her favorite roles are being a mom to three beautiful children, a wife and an educator. She loves people and loves to learn, and so we just kicked it off and have been meeting like every month to brainstorm things. She has served as a principal, a school counselor, and she is currently the assistant director of student support services and wellness in Morton School District in Illinois. She is also a neural sequential model of education advanced trainer, so in other words, she knows all about the brain and she schools me all the time and they're like, oh, you just can't see in the background. And they're like, going, you just can't see in the background. She says it is her honor to walk beside other educators as we all strive to show up as our best selves to serve those that enter our school doors. We also have Don Sturm, who is in his 33rd year as an educator and he is currently a technology integration specialist in Morton, illinois, at the same school district.
Speaker 1:Before this, he was, heart of my heart, a social studies teacher for 23 years. He is an avid reader and is passionate about curiosity. If you are not following him on Instagram and Twitter and X and all the things that have those names that are constantly changing. You need to do so because this curiosity just shines through. They are both the co-hosts of Care U Podcast. It is a toolbox of resources and conversations for anyone doing the most rewarding and exhausting but joy-filled and hard work of raising and caring for children, stephanie and Don. Thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having us. This is an exciting platform to be a part of.
Speaker 4:Wow, I know I think we start with. Hey, stephanie, how are you?
Speaker 3:Good, how are you Don?
Speaker 4:And then that's it, and then we get going. We we've learned something here, and I will tell you what that introduction, the heart, guess what? The hardest part for me was?
Speaker 1:um, I'm not gonna put words in your mouth. You say not talking.
Speaker 4:I wanted to interject so much and so I was like shaking, almost trying to, so I was glad when you turned it over to us but allowed us to talk.
Speaker 1:So how has your day been robust today? How are you doing what's on your hearts?
Speaker 3:I feel pretty lame compared to your guys' stories. I've just been in meetings and then came to get on the podcast, so I don't have any robust stories from the morning. But you never know, when you say things are calm, usually that means it all comes out.
Speaker 1:So blow out. Yep, you have a new puppy too, though. There's nothing like new puppy story, and Craig was just talking about having a puppy with him.
Speaker 3:I do have a puppy, but he was pretty calm today too. I'm going to get home and something's going to go wrong and I'm going to email both of you and say this is all your fault.
Speaker 1:I apologize in advance.
Speaker 3:It's all good. It's all good.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's just been a busy week. Actually, this is I don't know when this will come out this is a Thursday and it's just been nonstop, but not necessarily in a bad way.
Speaker 3:But we do live in Illinois and it has been gray and gloomy, and so you said this will come out in the spring, so I cannot wait for that, because I'm really longing for some sunshine, and I feel like everybody's moods are just better when it's not this gray yuck.
Speaker 4:It is 52 out right now, so 52, excuse me 52 in February is. I'll take that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and when I was there in the last week and a half it was fairly nice weather from what I'm used to in Illinois. But then I came back to Philly and it's cold and dreary here too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But then I came back to Philly and it's cold and dreary here too, yeah, yeah. So I'm curious, because I have had the great pleasure of being on the Care U podcast twice to share with caregivers, and I would love to know your thought process behind creating this for your district, for people in the area and around the country. What led to this and how has it impacted you, both as an educator and as parents?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Don actually has participated and hosted other podcasts and we talk and collaborate and reflect together a lot. And one day we were just talking about how there's a lot going on in our schools and it would be great to be able to reflect and connect with caregivers and we're just like, but you host these events and then not everybody can come because of schedules, they have other plans or they just don't have childcare or whatever the case may be. And so we were toying with should we put a website up? What should we do? And I'm like, man, it'd be great to do a podcast or something like a podcast. I think I said, and Don's like, let's do it. So I was like, really Well, he had already had the experience, so that is super helpful. And then we got the support right away from our superintendent and we have just never looked back.
Speaker 4:And I believe you said, shut up, I probably did, we cannot do. And I was like, yeah, it's not hard, I mean we will just figure out what our shtick is and then we'll go from there. And it's been fun.
Speaker 3:The most hilarious part I wish I could show you was the creation of the logo. Don had all these. Do you remember this, Don he sent me these images and I was like oh, that's cute. I was actually thinking more, something which was totally different.
Speaker 4:Yeah, in other words, she was telling me I don't really like that and I'm not a designer, but I'm also not afraid to throw stuff out there, and that's just part of me. And I was like, yeah, I'll just do this and I don't know. And so now we have, it is an awesome logo, but it is. It's simple, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like the minimalist approach to that and I love, don, though, too, your ability to just kind of throw things out. That's like the growth mindset what can we do, how can I grow and get better? And I think you give just knowing your relationship, really good feedback to each other.
Speaker 4:So Stephanie was in our district before and then left, so we had known each other. She actually was my daughter's basketball coach and so we have a relationship prior to this, so I think that makes it easier. The same way, when I you know the other podcast I do, I co-taught with her for 15 plus years, so it's always nice to have that relationship. I can't imagine doing this and not knowing the person at first that you are working with.
Speaker 3:So it makes it so much more fun. We laugh a lot also, which I can tell you to do as well, but we laugh. We give signals of like, oh man, what are we doing? So it is a lot of fun, but really it's a true honor. I'm a parent of a child in each grade level elementary, middle and high school and Don is further ahead in his journey on the parenting and so he gives me insight I'm older.
Speaker 3:I didn't say that, but he gives me insight, he gives different perspective, and I think that's really a beautiful thing for our listeners is because I'm kind of in the thick of it and sometimes when you're out of the thick of it, you can give a different perspective. And that's all we're seeking to do is give perspective, not to shame or blame or say that any one way is right or wrong, and I think that has been the biggest feedback we've gotten is just the opportunity for people to take our content and reflect what it means to them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I have a 31 and a 26-year-old and so it is different. And it's hard to even sometimes, when we talk about topics that are like with technology that's one that we hear a lot about it was just different. I mean, when my kids were removed 10 years ago, it just wasn't the same, and so some of those things I can look at it from a lens of here's what I've read about, here's what I've heard other people do. I can't tell you that I did that because my kids weren't on Instagram 10 years ago or 12 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I aspire that that's going to be Craig and I, that my kids are going to be older, Craig's going to be like what is happening, and so yeah, craig, do you have children?
Speaker 2:I do not have my own at this time.
Speaker 3:So she's saying you guys are going to be together for a while.
Speaker 2:That's an accurate depiction.
Speaker 1:Pretty much it's like let's go here.
Speaker 2:I'm like okay we're lifetime care bears. That's how this works.
Speaker 4:So you know we're on missions all over the place that's what we need to start calling we're lifetime care bears I love the look on your face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say I didn't know how to talk.
Speaker 3:I was envisioning him saying that we have a meeting in a little bit. I'm going to have him say that to the team. I'll let you all know the looks that were given in the comments.
Speaker 2:That is amazing. So I'm curious. In the sphere of parenting, I spent some time last month with my parents, who were both gosh. I want to say my dad is a boomer but he rejects and rebukes that as an actual depiction stat, you know, as a as an actual depiction, uh. But you know, my mom and my dad are like 60s and 70s at this point and so we've been having these conversations about technology, access to technology. What are they looking to in order to kind of stay up and abreast of things?
Speaker 2:Uh, my father is interested just knowing what is the pulse of what is going on. He is the guy who, if he sees on the news on weathercom that something's going, uh, to boston what is going on? He is the guy who, if he sees on the news on weathercom that something's going to Boston, he is going to harass my mother and make sure that she reaches out to me to actually find out what is going on. How are we doing? Even though my dad has my number, he can call me and say hey, son, where are you at, what's going on? But no, he says to my mom who is in the next room you need to find out what's going on with that boy, which is its own thing. It's real interesting.
Speaker 2:But one of the things I think about with you know the nature of parenting, social media and how we're leveraging things. And I'm just curious with a fun question to kind of kickstartstart, you know, or actually continue our conversation. So you talked about having a 32 year old and then I, 31 and 26, 26. So what does netflix look like like? How do y'all navigate? Like, what is the show? Everybody comes together and watches, uh, while y'all are around. So is there a show or shows that y'all are hooked to and connected to when y'all are around? So is there a show or shows that y'all are hooked to and connected to when y'all are together, or is it like everybody on their own devices, regardless of being in the same room?
Speaker 4:So we are, because they're both out of the house. It may be a once, well, like we were all together last weekend and we have such different tastes that we don't. We find ourselves not with the tv on when we're all four together, I would like to say because that's we're bonding and we have all this wonderful time together as a family. Nope, we've tried, and my son is purely documentaries. My daughter is all kinds of sad. She's not sad, but she likes all of the books that make you cry, and she took me to see Iron Fist, one of the saddest movies I've ever seen. And my wife and I tend to. You know we like to watch things together, but yeah, as a family we uh. My son doesn't like movies. It's, it's too much for him to sit for a couple of hours and so, yeah, that there's not a lot, um, movie wise and tv wise that we agree on wow, that is.
Speaker 2:That's something very similar for uh, for me and my parents. Uh, in regards to what we watch and don't, my mom watches court tv. She loves all the judges, judge, judy and the whole judge suite, but that is western sports and, uh, just, you know, national news. I am one who likes a good murder mystery, I love home improvement shows and things like that and, uh, you know, that's it it. You know, we find a way over food to be able to talk and engage and well, that that's us.
Speaker 4:I love to cook. My son now is currently into. He just cracks me up when I say it. He is into fermenting and I mean there is always something that he's having us try Try this cabbage, try this, these Brussels sprouts, try this hot sauce, try this. So he took my love of cooking and my wife and daughter would prefer to just eat the stuff that we, we make. So nice.
Speaker 1:What, what, what are you all bonding around? Are there any common shows that you watch?
Speaker 3:so I have a 10 year old and gonna be 12 to be 12-year-old and a 14-year-old and the oldest are boys and they constantly watch disc golf and my husband loves it too disc golf, sports, all those things and my daughter being the youngest, she doesn't really get a choice, so she watches whatever they watch. But if we had to pick a movie we love, like avatar and the hunger games movies and usually that's a hard thing to do, though, that's a really good question, Cause if you have a span or people with different interests, of course, um, it is hard to find one, but I would say those are the movies that we would probably lean towards or Christmas vacation.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, and you know, it's interesting that you say that, because I think that's why we are in this situation, because our kids are five years apart and so what my son could watch at 15, my daughter was not watching, probably at 10. So it was uncommon we would sit and watch Disney movies or Christmas vacation, christmas story, those kinds of things. But I think the closer in age your kids are, that's probably easier to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, otherwise my daughter's going can I look? Yet With her hands over her face and we're like, no, you can't look. So it's a fun question to ask, but it that's the kind of thing that we talk about on our podcast is just things that our people are dealing with, and that's something I would say is a probably a common question. You could ask any group of people what would you all watch together? So I like that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that you know, as, as I I poorly you know set the stage I'm thinking about well, how am I continuing to build a relationship with my parents who are in their 60s and 70s? I've crossed the 40s threshold and there is a granddaughter not mine yet, but there's a granddaughter who is in her own world and she loves all kinds of things that show empowerment of girls and she loves superheroes. Right now she's very fascinated by some of the Disney films as well, but she loves to see. Right now she's really about girl empowerment, which I think is righteous.
Speaker 2:I'm curious for the work that you do and as well as some of the conversations you've been having on your own podcast within your communities around, because there's so much that is out in the ether in regards to social media and media that we're seeing and families still trying to find ways to connect and build relationship regardless of generations, and so I'm just curious about you know, what have you seen, what have you observed, what has been some of the conversations that you've been having on? How do parents continue to parent in the midst of this media, social media world that we're in? How do you continue to strengthen relationships that may feel strained because they're just not always on the same page about things. There's so much going on now so I'm just kind of curious about you know, your observations, maybe your own experiences in parenting and building and extending those relationships.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I am all about the modeling part of things in that, because I didn't go through it firsthand, necessarily trying to help parents understand what. What is social media? Why are your kids on social media? What are they getting from it? What are are the good things, what are the bad things? But then that modeling, like how are you using social media? And if you want to know what your kids are doing on TikTok, I might recommend getting on TikTok. And sometimes I think, and sometimes I think that parents don't, they're not looking at themselves in the mirror and say, oh okay, well, my kids are seeing me do that as well.
Speaker 3:And I would say the other thing is the boundaries. We have pretty strict boundaries at our house, like mealtime. You mentioned connecting over food If and when we have a meal together, the phones and the TV is off. But we just talked about that. What does that look like in your house? Whatever the boundary is, is it?
Speaker 3:I try to say goodnight to my kids every night. I know that sounds crazy, maybe sounds like well, of course you do, but their phones are in the kitchen and I'm making that intentional connection. But not everybody does that. Some people work at different hours and so my story isn't the same. So it's just like taking the opportunity to think about boundaries and what that looks like, because I feel like the most important thing is being present.
Speaker 3:So it's less about the amount of time and more about the quality of time that you get. So if you only get five minutes with your kid, then I want them to look at me in the eyes and know that I see you, and I want to know how you're doing, rather than looking at my phone while they're looking at theirs, which we could totally get in that spiral in our house. So that's really important. But then the other thing that you brought up. I don't know if either of you have read Never Enough yes, by Jennifer Wallace, so that's really in our community right now. That is talking about a toxic culture of overachievement and the doing more and more and more and more, and so I'm just going to bring up travel sports, to use this as an example, and so I think we are with our kids in less amount of time because we feel like we have to have them signed up for foreign language and travel softball and she says an architecture class at nine years old.
Speaker 3:The book is fascinating. You should read it. But I think part of it it is social media, but it's also we are so busy we don't have the downtime of like we don't have anything going on, and that book really opened my eyes to a lot of at what cost every yes or the no. So if I say yes to my oldest son doing something, then my youngest daughter has to go with us and I don't know. That's pretty profound in our community. Right now we're doing a book study with our caregivers on that and with our teachers, but it's something that I really resonated with as an educator and as a mom, so I would recommend that you guys check that out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for that. You're always giving me great book recommendations, and so I keep ordering and getting more of these books here.
Speaker 4:It's fabulous. I mean, I would say it is one of my favorite non-fiction books that I've ever read it might be the number one book right now in new york times it.
Speaker 3:it's brand new, but it blew up, and I think it blew up because it's so applicable. She says in one part that if you feel like, if you don't get on the elevator, your kid is going to be stuck at the ground floor forever. In terms of travel, whatever at a very young age, or singing lessons, it doesn't have to be sport, but we found that with our community, they really resonate with that and it's like the so what now? What? Like how do we stop this train from going 99 miles an hour all the time? And so I don't know if you all feel that in your roles, but that idea of the toxic overachievement also plays a role, along with social media, in how we be present and have that quality of time. In my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so my kids are older too and I'm thinking back on like the sports that they did in the activities and honestly, we didn't really push anything unless they really showed a genuine interest. So we didn't have a ton of things that we were involved in. It was like they wanted to do baseball, so we did baseball. Wanted to do baseball, so we did baseball, and we did go to different places and games and things like that several times a week, but we weren't into like the travel schedules and we have to be doing this all of the time.
Speaker 1:I think that part of that is also that I intentionally wanted them to have downtime for more imaginative play and more opportunities to not have things so structured play and more opportunities to not have things so structured.
Speaker 1:And I say that also knowing that I'm somebody who has a hard time just sitting without having my computer on my lap and like researching or doing work or like learning something, and so I acknowledge that that's something. I could probably read that book and internalize some of those pieces for myself, like, okay, what's my next step? If I don't do this, am I going to fall behind as a business owner in the practice? And so I think that that's really applicable for those of us as educators and as caregivers. And wrapping around to this idea of caregivers, I know we've talked about this before and I think it's really important and I love the fact that you call it care you and we're not talking about parents or guardians, and oftentimes I would move to family. And so do you mind talking about the why you picked the term caregivers and how that has resonated in the community and in my mind it's more inclusive and I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3:That was our intention behind it. I was a counselor for a decade and so I had a lot of students that would share with me that, as soon as you say parents, it's exclusive. It doesn't include everyone. That's not my story, and we really just wanted this to be a platform for everyone who is caring for someone, and so we share with our teachers too, because they care for the kids in their classroom sometimes and we have grandparents in the role, and I just think we need to be intentional about being more inclusive. That was an easy shift for us and, honestly, it was pretty powerful. But we need to be intentional about being more inclusive. That was an easy shift for us and, honestly, it was pretty powerful. But we try to be intentional about our words also. So you hit it. I mean, that's why we did it is to try to be intentional with that.
Speaker 4:Well, and it's interesting too, because when and I think I probably am more guilty of it than you, but I think we've both done it while we are recording, we may say parents, but a lot of times we'll say parents, caregiver, like it. It's just that it's become that habit and I think it is. It is inclusive and like when I hear, uh, let's just take teachers, for example. It is so easy and I did it as well, okay, take this form home and have your mom and dad sign, or your mom or dad. Nobody means anything by that. It's not like teachers are trying to be exclusive, but it is that language.
Speaker 4:What would it change to say caregivers versus parents? Because now, let's say, one year, everybody in your class that is living with aunt, uncle, mom, dad, whomever, a friend, what that would make them feel like if they don't hear go home to your parents. I mean, and I always think let's take the worst situation a child who has had the parents maybe pass away. I mean just the stress of that, and they're always probably trying to get that out of their head, and now here's somebody reminding them you don't have parents. So that was a long way around. Just saying I agree with you, stephanie.
Speaker 3:He likes to talk. I like him on the podcast.
Speaker 1:That's awesome and I think I've worked with people who are like well, why should I just change this word? I'm like what do you value? And if you value inclusivity and having students feel that they're a part of a community, it's worth changing a word or two. So I appreciate you sharing that and I'm going to kick it over to Craig because he, in talking about the book from Jennifer Wallace, he found this quote that is just amazing and I think speaks to how we show up as caregivers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like it's also. This quote resonates for me, even as an educator. But it says kids don't need perfect role models. In fact, perfection doesn't serve them, doesn't serve the adults in their lives. Our kids need someone who is just good enough, someone who loves them and teaches them what it means to be an imperfect but lovable human. And you know, I am not a parent yet, but I've had to foster and be a surrogate in many cases. And kids are okay with rough draft versions of who we are and we're going to continue to be rough draft versions of our. We never arrive at whatever is perfection, but you are imperfectly perfect for the young person who you get to steward into a greater part of their own being and existence. And I know sometimes we feel I'll talk about you.
Speaker 2:Know, since I've talked about my parents a lot and just their caregiving, my parents did the best they could with what they had and the tools they had, and they weren't handed great tools, but they took the tools, no matter how rusty, no matter how jagged. They did the best they could to create the environment where we could thrive, based on the best they knew. They knew they wanted us to live in a house together. They wanted to make sure that they could see two parents who are working incredibly hard. They have two. While they are united by faith, a faith system and a belief even how that manifests is different. What they require from each other, as well as the children, was different and at some point down the line, once I got older and had an opportunity to step back, I could see so much of myself from like this part is from dad, this part is from mom.
Speaker 2:But I understood that for them, core values was faith and family was faith and family love hard, that traditions were shared over food and that we're going to make mistakes and we have to do our best to say I'm sorry in a tone for the things that we did wrong. How do we repair harm when we've done it? Even if they don't always model that perfectly well, there is always this belief that you know, hopefully tomorrow we could do better than we did yesterday, and that is part of our you know handoff to us as children and now that I am much older, I have the ability to do that same thing as well and translate that. So for me, thank you for sharing Never Enough. By Jennifer Wallace. I can't wait to pick it up. I have not read it yet. I just think about Never Enough, the song from the Greatest Showman. So I start there first. And I still think that even that premise and that book and that song are in alignment to Jennifer Wallace, so maybe they cooked something together on this one.
Speaker 3:They probably should have if they didn't right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, the perfectionism. I think people, I think our society sometimes holds that perfectionism as like a badge of honor and we try to be non-blaming, non-shaming, non-judgmental, so I need to be careful. I think we have to be careful with thinking that's a badge of honor. I think we have to consider what the ramifications are of that perfectionism. Ramifications are of that perfectionism.
Speaker 4:I'm not a perfectionist, but I think anybody who knows me would say he's a hard worker, he cares about what he does and I try not to put out bad stuff, but sometimes it's going to happen. Sometimes there's going to be a typo in something, sometimes there's going to be uh, whoops. I accidentally switched that when I was writing. I forgot to put that sentence above this sentence and you know what? I change it and republish it. It's not I don't lose sleep over. Well, I it might bother me. I'm not going to lie and say, oh, it doesn't bother me, but I think somehow we need to move our society forward that you don't have to be perfect and what I think? Brene Brown, we did the gifts of imperfection for our first book study. Now we're doing never Enough. I think the more you are vulnerable about things like that, it breaks down those walls to have other people say, oh, I'm willing to be vulnerable as well.
Speaker 3:I thought of a robust moment. Craig, are you ready for this? A parenting moment. So I value sleep. That is a value in our house. Like we, our kids have to go to bed. We go to bed and one night we left our oldest son home with our dog and we went to a game a basketball game of our son, our other son, and we came back and our, our 14 year old, fell asleep, left this brand new puppy out. The puppy had accidents all over our living room because he was trying to wake up. Liam, liam wasn't waking up, and so I walk in and I'm going to say one of my least proud moments I did not handle that very well. Our house smelled. I was annoyed. He had one job Okay, so I was not happy.
Speaker 3:I was telling Don about this and Don was looking at me. He's like you know what? It's really surprising that you handled that that way, because you value sleep. And obviously he was tired and I was like, oh yes. So I went back to my son and repaired and I think you hit on that and I think that's really powerful.
Speaker 3:Now did I tell him that I wasn't disappointed? Absolutely not because I was disappointed, but I did say I don't think I handled that correctly because clearly you were tired, but what could have been done differently? How could we have? I could have handled this differently. And let me tell you now how could you have handled it differently. And it was pretty powerful, because if the kid's tired, he's tired, but did he go to bed the night before on time? All those things. It just made me think of when you said that your parents did a good job at not being perfect and also showing the repair and love. I hope I did that in that example to show like, hey, I know I didn't handle that very well, but I do share these things. On Care, you, I didn't share that story, but I share a lot of personal stories and I always wonder if it's okay, because I don't ask my kids permission but I usually don't use names, I just did that, yeah, you did.
Speaker 4:I was going to say yeah, you know that when you mentioned the repair, the rupture, we need to have somebody on our podcast who would be willing to talk about that.
Speaker 3:Maybe Craig wants to.
Speaker 4:Well, we had Krista. Oh oh yeah, that was the episode.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was trying to be funny there, yeah, I'm like, wait a minute, that sounds like one idea we stole it from krista. Remember when I said that I was, she said it in a pd session and I was like that's amazing yeah, I I must have gotten that from somebody else, though, so I I wish I could say that I came up with say you make it I probably didn't I have.
Speaker 4:I love this. This is my robust story. Stephanie, her skills, her skill set is thinking. She invented all kinds of things that she didn't actually invent like, and now I can't even think of a one of them sel coaching.
Speaker 3:I thought I invented sel coaching.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then she'll be like. I read that in a book that was published before I said that, so obviously I didn't invent it and it's just it's.
Speaker 1:It's a never-ending drama with stephanie it reminds me of the romey and michelle's high school reunion when she's like I didn't get the post-it notes and they're like what?
Speaker 1:I that went over my head yeah, we'll have to be the oldest guy in the room yeah, um, well, and thinking about the where you you were able to call her in, because I think brené brown also talks about like, what are your core values? What does it look like when you're leaning into them? What does it look like when you're leaning into them? What does it look like when you're slipping out of your core values, and how can you have some people around you who can help you notice that and call you on it and be like well, you said this was a value of yours and it's. We all have our blind spots, and Craig and I talked to Hedrick Nichols a couple weeks ago about noticing blind spots and we don't always see them ourselves, and so it's good having amazing friends around who can help us see those pieces and allow us to become better versions of ourselves, and we don't get upset about it because we know they're coming from a place of care.
Speaker 4:Absolutely yeah. Did you hear what she said?
Speaker 3:Amazing.
Speaker 4:Amazing friends. I think she was talking about me.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing three of them right here.
Speaker 4:You know, that's what I love about this, the podcast. It causes us to have so many great conversations Like what did you do with your kids? And oh, we didn't do very well with that. I wish, because kids don't come with an instruction manual at all. And I'm going to just, I don't think we as a society, we just expect everybody is going to be a great parent, a great caregiver, that. And then we almost push our nose up when people aren't doing what we think they should be doing. But it's like, how did they find out to do what they're doing? And sometimes they're looking at their neighbor and they're like, well, we'll just do what our neighbor's doing, or we'll do what my parents did, but maybe I don't like what my parents did, but I'm, and so we're just. I just love to have those conversations Like what is a way, not the way, what is a way that you could help a child navigate, whatever it is that they're going through?
Speaker 3:Which makes me think of my favorite thing, when I had the realization and the permission that we didn't have to carve pumpkins. I don't like that. I don't like carving pumpkins. My kids didn't like carving pumpkins but we thought we have to carve pumpkins. I don't like that. I don't like carving pumpkins. My kids didn't like carving pumpkins but we thought we had to carve pumpkins.
Speaker 3:And somewhere along the way somebody said just don't do it. And I'm like, yes, that kind of goes to that perfection piece, like why were we doing it? We would much prefer to paint them. That's more fun. They don't make a mess whatever. But it's more fun that they don't make a mess whatever. But really my husband was carving five pumpkins by himself because none of the kids couldn't hold the knife and it was just a whole thing. But we've gotten that feedback a lot that we give people permission to think about something a different way, and I think you mentioned like amazing friends. But I also think the work that you do on this podcast probably gives people permission and I just think that's such good work sounds like uh y'all are sharing your superpowers I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't think they know about that part of our podcast, craig oh so we, we have a question for every guest.
Speaker 2:Uh, and and you, uh, both are phenomenal human beings, so what would you consider to be your superpower at this point in your life?
Speaker 3:I actually very easily. The first thing I thought of was I have a lot of empathy and I am able to, throughout experience, really sit with people. I don't. It doesn't take much for me to find the human in any scenario and I maybe Don would disagree, but I feel like that's something I've just realized. It's not that easy for everyone, but for it's just something I have. I love humans and I can find good in almost every scenario, so I think I have a lot of empathy. That would probably be mine.
Speaker 4:I yeah, I mean not to copy off, but I think I'm much more empathetic. I mean I'll share the. I will spare you the whole backstory, but you know, 15 years ago I was not the same person. I was judgmental, it was, I was quick to. I wasn't real empathetic, I wasn't. And I've changed from some personal experiences that we have gone through, and so I think the empathy is there and for me it's the connection it's I think I have, that is my skillset. I mean, like I can remember even my parents, like Don never knows a stranger, he's never, I mean, and that's just that part of it has been me all along. And I think then you add that and now you add the empathy into it and I think I'm you, you kind of wish, I mean I'm mid fifties, kind of wish, I mean I'm mid-50s, I wish I would have been that way when I was 23 or 25, but sometimes you it's. There is wisdom. I think that not always, but there can be. So I did. I answer that question.
Speaker 2:We got a thumbs up, so good uh, we are, uh, you know, around the bend at the, you know, at the close of this uh journey. Uh, for today. So, how you know, do folks connect with you? Uh, because I'm sure they're excited and ignited by what they've heard so far and they definitely need to check out your podcast more. So how do folks find you and stay connected to the great things that you are discussing and doing and showing up in the world?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the podcast is a really great way. We try to put out an episode every two weeks. We would love feedback. So if anybody listens and checks that out, both on social media Don's a lot more active. I'm more of a social media with my family, but I do have Instagram, facebook X they're all the Brown family of five, but they're. So it's very personal, it's like a personal, but I do. I do try to post things. So that's me. It's very personal, it's like a personal, but I do, I do try to post things.
Speaker 4:So that's me, yeah, I am probably most active on I have a hard time saying X Twitter, um, am dabbling in Instagram and that, but I am a sturm Don and, um, yeah, the podcast. I mean we just I think that's. The other thing is you always say, oh, we want people, we want feedback. I mean, we genuinely want feedback and we have a couple of listeners that I don't know that they've ever had a negative thing to say. But you sometimes want people to say, oh, it'd be nice if you did this or if you ever consider this. So, yeah, we would love for people to listen and give feedback.
Speaker 1:I'm like wait, are you going to speak? Welcome to the world of podcasting. We're like, okay, who's up? So, yes, we are going to link to the podcast to your social medias so that people can reach out to both of you, and I really, really recommend that people take a listen. I think that in education, we're talking about relationships and how to support students, and oftentimes we don't think about how we're connecting directly and supporting the caregivers that are working in conjunction with us, and that's really powerful. We want students to have similar contexts, and so how can we share what is working, and I appreciate that both of you, as educators and as caregivers, are able to give us that perspective. And just a little note I'm also looking forward to being Auntie Krista. When Craig and Omari decide that, you know, maybe they want to expand their family, even if it's a puppy, I'll be Auntie Krista.
Speaker 3:Puppies are great. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen to you. That happened to me.
Speaker 2:As someone who had several puppies and that turned into little grown folks. But it happens, right, it happens, and you know we'll be okay. All right, sel and EDU family, we want to close out this wonderful conversation. You must check out, like, subscribe and do all of the magical things with our wonderful dynamic duo. We have Stephanie and we have Don here. They have been phenomenal and please, please, please, check out their podcast. All of that is contained in the show notes. So until we actually return again, sel and ED family, there's this big question about whether or not folks are still wearing stockings. I know I'm still thinking about that from earlier today, but it's all right, you can wear whatever you want. You can wear things on your knees or not, lotion or not, coconut butter or coconut oil or apples Whatever brings it.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, I was like apples and I stopped recording Apples on your knees. What is going on?
Speaker 2:You might be peeling them. So, s-e-l-a-d, s-e-l-a-d family, this is my second try on going in and closing this bad boy out, but it's all good. We want to send all of y'all love. We want y'all to laugh. We just really hope you got all you could and more from today's conversation. All right, sel and EDU family. Until we are connected again, we want to wish you and yours, who you hold dear hold them real tight and stand strong and perfectly perfect in the SEL and EDU life. We love you Y'all, take care.