SEL in EDU
SELinEDU Podcast is stories and insights from outstanding teachers, administrators, leaders, and students on all things Social Emotional Learning in education. These 30-40-minute podcasts are perfect for a commute, a nice cup of joe, or a self-care walk.
SEL in EDU
049: Solutions and SEL: Fortifying Youth Mental Health with Justin Rubenstein
In this episode of SELinEDU, we discuss the vital intersection of mental health and education, the stress and anxiety that burden today's youth, and the essential strategies for building resilience.
With his deep roots in education and advocacy, Justin Rubenstein sheds light on the stressors plaguing our children, highlighting the importance of demystifying mental health and fortifying our young with the skills to overcome life's obstacles. We trade insights on the delicate balance of stress as a motivator versus a barrier, sharing tangible strategies for managing mental wellness and underscoring educators' critical role in nurturing a supportive learning environment.
Weaving through the chapters of our exchange, we celebrate the power of play and the concept of front-loading in education. Reminiscing about childhood games that unconsciously equipped us with life skills, we underscore the lasting value of these experiences in fostering growth. As we wrap up, we extend a heartfelt call to action for collective support of our youth, spotlighting the indispensable role of Social Emotional Learning within our communities.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
- Connect with Justin via Psychology Today, Twitter and Instagram.
- Read his publications:
- Rubenstein, J.S. (2023, February 1). From student to leader, the influence of brain science. Professional Learning Partnerships. From Student to Leader: The Influence of Brain Science | Professional Learning Partnerships.
- Christner, R. W., Heim, M., Gipe, K., Mennuti, R.B., & Rubenstein, J. Facilitating mental health services in schools: Universal, targeted, and interventions. In T.M. Lionetti, E. Snyder, & R.W. Christner (Eds.), A practical guide to developing competencies in school psychology. New York: Springer Publishing.
- Christner, R. W., & Rubenstein, J. (2006, February). Factors associated with separation anxiety disorder following World Trade Center attacks. Communique, 34(5).
Welcome to SEL in EDU.
Speaker 2:Where we discuss all things social and emotional in education. I'm Krista and I'm Craig and we are your host on this journey. All right, sel EDU family. We are back. Yes, we are. It is for us in the Northeast apple picking season. We're all in the pumpkin Everything pumpkin, pumpkin, latte, pumpkin, you know, biscuits, pumpkin donuts, all the things fall, cinnamon everywhere. I just think it's just a cinnamon fest, just everywhere. So I'm curious, krista, how are things on your side?
Speaker 1:I'm good. Now you have me hungry. I want to eat one of my favorite things. I'm actually not a huge pumpkin fan, though, but it's a family tradition to make homemade apple dumplings, so I am gearing up to start making apple dumplings in the next couple of weeks. So what, which? If you had to pick between pumpkin and apple and cinnamon, what would you pick?
Speaker 2:Apple, yes, apple, all right. So I'm preparing for those who may not know Preparing for a wedding. So by the time this comes out like, I will be married. I will be married for a long time. You know all good, but I am thinking about bringing some of this Northeast flair. So I'm thinking about some cider and stuff like that. That might be like one of our events for a wedding. So I'm excited to bring a little bit of that. I love apple cider donuts. I just got to run a whole day and then I can eat them without guilt, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1:So now I'm even more excited and I'm thinking I know that that Friday night there's a little get together before the actual wedding and so maybe there'll be some apple cider donuts out there, getting to know everybody and chill out. So, yeah, I'm excited for your upcoming special day. Yeah, so we have lots to celebrate today, not only marriage and the fall, but also our guest is with us today. We have Justin Rubenstein with us. He is a former teacher, school psychologist, brain injury consultant and adjunct professor. He is a public school administrator and president of Solutions for Education and Educational Consulting Firm Counsel excuse me, an educational counseling and consulting firm. He is passionate about the cross-section of mental health and education and has advocated throughout his career for positive behavioral strategies and interventions to help students and staff. Welcome, justin. Thank you so much for being here and for your time.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me on. This is awesome and I love that you guys were talking about the fall season and apple picking and pumpkins. Craig, I'm with you. I mean I'll take apples over pumpkin, but I love pumpkin, everything. I'm here for it all.
Speaker 1:Do you go and get your pumpkin coffee in the morning Like? Are you a pumpkin flavor in your coffee?
Speaker 3:I am Chrissy, yeah, and I'm partial to certain stores over the others when it comes to the pumpkin flavor. Some have a little too strong pumpkin flavor, but yeah, I do like my pumpkin coffee.
Speaker 1:I think you need to spill it now. You need to tell us where the place to go is.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm a little partial to Wawa. Believe it or not, I think they have great coffee, but no, their pumpkin coffee is subtle. It's light and subtle, so I like that.
Speaker 1:I approve. I approve, Craig. Are there Wawa's up in your area or is it just down in our region of PA?
Speaker 2:I don't know where, like I'd have to do a Google search. I'm a Google search where Wawa is like the latest one. I know that they are in New York, I know that they are in Jersey and you can see it goes south. You're going to see Wawa Nation. I just don't know if there are any in the greater Boston region. But we'll do some research. That'd be interesting. Do a like a little pumpkin tour, like let's go to Wawa and Dunkin' and Starbucks and other places.
Speaker 1:Let's see what's up. Yeah, my husband and I do that with crumb cakes from different bakeries to see which one has the best crumb cake. So yes, we'll need to do that tour.
Speaker 2:Right, sel and Food Nation.
Speaker 1:Let's go. Oh, I see something coming up in our future. Yes. So, Justin, I'm curious and I'm kind of known for like let's just jump right into the questions. We have done some work. I know the work that you have done within your district and now you have your own organization. Tell us more about that organization and what that work looks like for you right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, so we started Solutions for Education out of, you know, what I felt like was a necessity really, and kind of a calling on my part.
Speaker 3:So one of the things we see in really all communities right now are, you know, well, everyone, the kids in particular, you know really, you know having any sort of needs when it comes to, you know, mental health and a lot of times it's traditional counseling or traditional therapy or what have you. Well, you know, I wanted to kind of fill that void a little bit because, you know, for working with kids on up to teens and young adults, you know you have to go about things, I think, a little bit differently to really get people comfortable and get at what the issues are. So, you know, for 1, we started this out of necessity, out of what we felt like is necessity in terms of really putting a premium on premium on building those relationships and, secondly, you know, really gearing it towards kids that are that cross section of mental health and education, right. So we're not a traditional kind of therapy organization. It's really helping students and helping kids and teens and young adults when they're having difficulties that are spilling into their schooling.
Speaker 2:I wanted to build off of that a little bit.
Speaker 2:I was reading there's been a couple of things that podcasts and things like that that have been reading and really thinking about the well being of young people post pandemic.
Speaker 2:And I mean, I know it's arguable whether or not we're still in the pandemic post pandemic or not, that you could argue that on another day and another time.
Speaker 2:But what I've seen specifically, not just here in Massachusetts but more broadly, our young people, especially like middle schoolers, are experiencing a lot of anxiety and stress because of housing cost going up, food cost going up, car, you know, everything seems to continue to go up and we're seeing young people were also worried about their parents who are working to or more jobs Sometimes they lose the jobs they have and because it's so tough these days to, you know, make a, you know, living wage, even that level of stress is impacting them. So I'm really curious for you know the work that you are doing, champion or even in partnership what are you know, what is your pulse on how young people are doing? How are the parents doing with some of these things and what are some of the things that you are, I guess, talking to educators, education personnel, clinicians about in regards to the state of young people, their mental well being and strategies to support them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a great point, Craig. So, I mean, I think that what we're seeing is really a microcosm of society, right, as you pointed out, there's been a lot that's going on the last couple years that have affected families, and obviously, when it affects families and society, it affects kids, right. And so you know, I have seen definitely an uptick with anxiety, stress management and things that need to, for a myriad of reasons, right, one of the things that we really try to do with our organization is, you know, demystify a lot of that, right. So you know we don't want to.
Speaker 3:Too often we get into that, that trap of lamenting over whatever the issue is, whether it's anxiety, depression, but have you, and we try to put a label on it, and I think that that has its place, right. But what we're trying to do is say you know what all of us have, any number of challenges that we work through on on a daily basis. I'm not going to remind you yours. However, what we need to do is identify what are some of the things that are causing anxiety or stress or what have you, and then how can we build some, you know, real, actionable, pragmatic skills to help you work through that. So it's really kind of life skill based and we try to keep it really focused on skill building and the understanding that, hey, listen, whether it's now a year from now, 10 years from now, you're going to go through a myriad of challenges in life and you have to have the skills to be able to work through that.
Speaker 1:About six, maybe seven years ago, I was working with a large school district down south and one of the administrators said so SEL is about taking stress away from our kids and I'm like, no, no, because some stress is good, it motivates us, it keeps us moving forward. It's about helping our students develop the skill set, like you said, to navigate those challenges and to find out what that root cause is. And I'm wondering could you talk a little bit more about how could a parent or a child start thinking about what is the root cause of where this is coming from and when should I be worried? Because you know, it's okay to be nervous about something or anxious about something, but at what point is it like? Well, maybe this isn't something that should be happening as frequently as it is.
Speaker 3:You hit on something that I think is so important in that stress and anxiety are necessary in life, right, if we don't have some degree of stress and anxiety would become inactive. It's that crossover, krista, of when does it become too much, when does it become more problematic, and that's a hard one to answer. I mean, I think that varies so much from person to person, situation to situation. What I tend to tell people is you know, first of all, any point in the continuum it's okay to get help. I mean, I can tell you, kids, adults from all walks of life just need some assistance to kind of work through and think through some of these challenges. However, you know, the point to be concerned is really that crossover. When it starts impacting multiple areas of life and really impacting it to a pretty significant extent, where you're not functioning as you typically would be, you know that's when I think that it's typically more of an alarm and with that you know, like I said, we don't want to catastrophize how people are feeling or what the situation is.
Speaker 3:You, too often I think our young people are saying well, I have anxiety, I have this when really they may, but they may not. It may just be really stressful and it's been interesting talking to, talking to some of the teenagers, you know, and kids. When they talk about this, it's like all right, well, what's going on? And they start telling me a litany of things that are very stressful in their life and I say them Hmm, so do you think that it's really atypical and not typical to be stressed out right now like you've a lot going on? Of course you're stressed out.
Speaker 3:It's more a matter of how do we frame it and also what skills can we build to work through that right now? And that's the piece that I think is so critical is how do we frame it? Do we frame it as this catastrophe? Or do we recognize and hey, listen, this is really stressful right now and, you know, validate some of those negative thoughts that we have? But then switching to argue with ourselves, right that cognitive dissonance, and to say, okay, well, a, should I be that stressed out right now? If the answers yes, then figure it out. Okay, I can chill out a little bit, I'm not going crazy, this is a hard time. Or if in fact it is, you know, there's a mismatch between how stressed out people are feeling versus what's going on. It's okay. Well, how can we evaluate some of those negative thought patterns and change them up so that you can influence your behavior in a more positive way?
Speaker 2:Well, I am going to add on a little bit more as I think about this as an educator. A teacher was in a classroom today principals who are also working in collaboration across the entire community to figure this out. If there is some young people who are not necessarily tapping into their own personal resources as well as resources appropriately across their school, I guess what is the work that happens on the ground to reeducate, retrain and re-calibrate how young people are seeing themselves? I think sometimes I will speak for me.
Speaker 2:I have not been a teenager for some decades, so it has been a long time since I had to think about that, the life of a teenager. I do realize that at points I have to pause and I have to really understand deeply what is going on with me. We know the science tells us that our young people it takes such a long time for young males and young females to actually get to a place of actualization or have a sense of what is going on for them. How do we hope them to better understand this is what is going on with you, or here is where you can get the support you need in order to do that and not necessarily misinterpret what their body may be telling them.
Speaker 2:Yeah the million dollar question, craig.
Speaker 3:Right, no, that is a great question. I think that to me, especially with school staff who have such access to kids on a daily basis, it comes down to relationship building and knowing the kids that are in front of you. That sounds kind of colloquial to say, because of course we are working with kids, we should be building relationships, but I think that it is different than that. I always speak to educators about what I have done. The power of one, that is the power of one positive thing to say every time you are seeing a kid, whether it is in the hallway, in your classroom, whatever. Along with that power of one, it is also helping kids that you are interacting with on a daily basis to understand that one challenges are normal. Now I am not talking about some of those really high need mental health challenges. Sometimes that becomes very atypical. But in terms of normalizing challenges, I think is vitally important and scaffolding that failure.
Speaker 3:We talk a lot I talk to teens and young adults a lot about failure and that is the pivot point of growth. But how can we fail in a safe way In schools? As teachers in the classroom, as administrators in the buildings, you can help kids fail in a safe way. That is skill building as opposed to moralizing. And as you get to know your kids, you get to know some of the things that they are really good at, some of the things that they have more difficulty with and sometimes well, many times some of the things that are going on outside of school that might be affecting them.
Speaker 3:I think that relationship piece is the most critical part and then from there you can really help kids to maneuver A by scaffolding their failure and really helping them to build skills through it. But also, when you see a kid that you have worked with day in and day out and they just seem different, it seems to be more than just a typical stress period or anxiety period, because there is a lot going on, because you have built those relationships with that kid, and that's where you can have that private conversation to listen. Justin, I'm not sure what's going on. I'm happy to listen, but maybe you could talk to your counselor, maybe you want to check in with your counselor to help process some things. So again, I always go back to relationships and that power of one.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I really appreciate that you've said is how failure is that pivot point for growth. I'm going to get that down in my note because I'm like that's so powerful and for someone like me, like I, in my head, I'm like, yes, I understand that failure is necessary to help lead you in the direction that is going to help you be more successful or get the outcome that you want. But then the emotional side of me is like I don't want to fail. This is awful, and sometimes it even freezes me, you know. And so how, like providing these specific opportunities for kids and I'm like prepping them ahead of time by saying this might be challenging and I want you to grapple with that a little bit on your own. I know it's going to stretch you and I am here, but it's okay to have those little stumbles before I come in, because it's going to help your brain, because it's going to help build some of these skill sets for you.
Speaker 1:Speaking of the brain, if I could, I'd like to jump a little into the brain science that I know you're also working towards, and I see that you wrote article for professional learning partnerships and Julie is a friend of mine, so that was awesome to see the connection there. I definitely need to have her on the podcast as well. And you wrote brilliantly about how you infuse brain science into every aspect of your life and I think that that's when you know the brain science and when you build the relationships. That's how we can really. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, so feel free to tell me but that's where we can have that intersection of meeting students academically and socially and emotionally, because we're seeing both sides. So my, I think my question is how could we use brain science or what would be some pieces of advice you would give an educator that can help build those relationships and provide opportunities for academic success for students?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, chris, you're definitely not wrong. There is a huge Okay, no, no, I mean brain science is everything right In terms of just human interaction, in terms of how we interact with the world, but in terms of education, it is critical, and I think that, well, a couple of things. I think front loading is huge, right. So what you described earlier was really, how do you front load expectations to get kids to understand like, hey, I'm gonna challenge you? Right, and I'm gonna challenge you because I believe you can meet that challenge. However, there may be some stumbling blocks along the way and I'm here to help you with that.
Speaker 3:That's a huge presetting strategy that primes the brain to take a greater risks, because you know, the individual knows that, okay, well, I can anticipate that things are gonna get hard and I also can anticipate that someone's gonna be here to help me through it.
Speaker 3:So I think those things are really critical.
Speaker 3:It's not the avoidance of hard, it's not the avoidance of failure and I agree with you, krista it's not the hey, I'm gonna challenge you beyond what you can handle, but some of that. And again, I think that the relationship piece with that goes hand in hand, right, when you say to someone hey, I'm gonna challenge you, but I am, and I'm challenging you because I believe that you can meet that challenge and rise above. However, if in fact, there's stumbling blocks, no worries, I got you, cause I'm right here with you. That's so powerful in terms of relationship building and matches the brain science along with that. So you know, I think those strategies are really critical and those are things I work with educators a lot on with my company, with solutions. I mean, when we're consulting with a team of teachers for a kid, for example, a lot of that are things I'm talking to them about. Or how do we scaffold our expectations in a way that helps kids to take risks, helps kids to succeed, also, stumble a little bit and then build those skills along with that.
Speaker 2:I'm curious about play. So I was sitting there trying to figure out well, how was I going to integrate this? How do you integrate play into some of these experiences that young people are having? I, we're in a social media driven world. Young people are becoming creatives more, like, you know, out the womb. You know kids cell phone go create. Like you know, in two years they got a whole you know TikTok channel. But gamification is also very prevalent and I think that for young people who I've been seeing growing up, that has been a way for them to build and maintain community. So I'm just kind of curious how play plays a role, even for adults, like actually getting out and even skipping, like okay, we just going to run and toss the ball, like that's something pickleball, like some. But I'm just curious, you know, how does play, you know, really integrate in some of the work that you have been championing for so long?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I mean I think play, I mean definitely plays a part, right.
Speaker 3:So you know what we know about play and what we know about like activity whether it's high activity play or not, are, you know, those neurological connections that it builds and can, you know, bring to the table with the connection that people feel when they're playing with others so long as it's not parallel play, right, that real true essence of play?
Speaker 3:And I think that it's a double edged sword, right. So obviously, you know the gamification of things and the online communities with play is one thing, but I think that when you have people actually playing in person, right, playing a game, playing an activity, and I think of elementary kids at recess, things like that I mean there are so many life lessons, obviously, that are built through that. There are so many ups and downs that happen and negotiating skills that are so critical to life. So I think that that's a huge part and what we know, I mean it's heavily researched. I'm certainly not telling you anything, you guys don't know, but when people are together, right, that increases, you know, your endorphins, increases positive outcomes for not only the like the individual, but also for all those participating. So I do think it has a substantial role, especially for our young kids, that we need to, you know, make sure we're trying to harvest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will elaborate why that came up, because it made me think about another podcast that Chris and I have done and as well as a conversation that was just in with, like, I did a healing circle yesterday in one of our communities and what we're seeing is that play is being something that is being taken away, because we have districts are like look, we're so far behind, we're not seeing enough scores taking back upwards, and you have educators who are at war with one another about well, I think that play is important and critical to what we're doing.
Speaker 2:It does help to foster a different way of like brainwave, movement and progression and things like that helps to build connection and connectedness towards each other, as well as the community building. But we also have so many Folks who are thinking like well, if you invested more time into literacy, mathematics, them, and would not, you'll get like your, you'll find a way to curve. You know the gap between achievement and whatnot. But I, I Disagree, I, I wholeheartedly disagree, and so I'm just wanting to make sure that I talked about that and it may felt like it came out of left field, but I do think that, as we are talking about brain science and brain development. We're talking about young people who come with a whole host of things that we don't just throw away, play as a, as an eight, like as an entity of so many wonderful things.
Speaker 3:So no, craig, I appreciate you saying that, because I would argue and I would argue this point with anyone that if you want to see, you know, your educational outcomes increase, just continually giving people no time and hammering them with it is not going to get the job done Right. So that that play component is, I think, huge and in terms of cost benefit, if you're doing like a cost benefit analysis, I think you're going to get a much bigger bang for your buck. Incorporating and building time for play in, as opposed to just hammering down with. You know, math and reading very important, don't get me wrong but there has to be space to breathe. There has to be space for kids to. You know One of the things with play also it breaks, you know, if we're going to talk about that.
Speaker 3:You know, from a nerve, from a neurocognitive perspective, right, that helps to consolidate all the stuff that you've been learning for the last hour. Right, you need that time to be able to kind of sit, even though you're not thinking about it, you're thinking about something else that that helps you to consolidate that information and store it so that you can use it, which is, I mean, that's learning right. So I Would, I would argue that point with anyone. Craig and I think you're you hit the nail in the head.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we're both getting validated here by the brain science expert. Yes, this is a good night.
Speaker 3:No, listen, I mean you know and all that good. I mean all that is sEL, right. I mean, when we talk about sEL, you know all the things we're talking about. That's what it is right. It's not a program, it's not a set of specific strategies, but it's all those things that we're talking about which is critical, critical, critical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. You just said that that sEL is not a program. It's who you are and what you do and and as you both were both talking, I was thinking about. Well, it's being curious and open-minded and analyzing what's in front of you and making decisions, and it's negotiating and showing teamwork and managing your emotions. I'm gonna take us a still a long play, but in a slightly different direction, because, as you were talking, I was reminded back to when my cousins and I and my neighbors at my grandparents house used to get together and we played outside. We made up all these different types of games. We we had this game called baby in the air and you threw. I don't know if anybody else has heard of this, but you think everybody had it. Is it my right in that everybody had a number and whoever had the ball ball up in the air and.
Speaker 1:Number, you would have run and get it and then you had to take that many steps to yeah. Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only, so I'm curious for both of you. Two-part question what was your favorite game playing when you were younger and what is your favorite game now? So while you're thinking, I can share that I have two favorite games now. One is Scrabble, because my family takes it very seriously. So we have to be like is this a fun game or a real game? And then I don't know if I'm saying it correctly, but we call it Rummy Cube, where it's these little tiles, and it's like playing Rummy, but you have these tiles and you get to mix and match and rearrange things to try to go out. And my boys and my nieces and nephews have the best brain for being able to rearrange everything and they're like I'm out, I think what just happened. So I just did. I'd love to hear you know your favorite Game growing up. And then, what do you enjoy now? And then, craig, Hmm, it's interesting.
Speaker 3:So, growing up one of my fondest memories we lived in a neighborhood that just so happened to have a lot, of, a lot of young families move in around the same time, so there are a lot of kids and we used to have these huge, huge games of. I think we called it freedom or a manhunt back then. So it was spanned at me at boundaries all over the neighborhood. We all dressed in In dark colors, it was at night and we had teams and the whole idea was it was like a big game of hide and go seek and the object was to get to, I guess, the other person, I don't know. It was a capture the flag, like get to the other person's side and capture whatever Object or whatever we designated.
Speaker 3:But if you got caught then you would get taken to jail and could only get freed if someone came From your team, came to jail to free you, right. So these were like massive games for hours that we you know what I think back on it. I mean that's not. I really cut my teeth in that game, knowing how to lose, knowing how to negotiate, dealing with people who were cheating and not playing the right way. You know all those really important life skills so that I really fond memories about, and I would say as far as now, whenever my family I relate to play like the game of life, that's always a fun one. So yeah, no.
Speaker 1:That always gets good laughs, although my, my daughters.
Speaker 3:It's kill me. I mean that, you know. It's like they always somehow end up with more money than I or the people don't really fit in the cars.
Speaker 1:So if you land on all you have like, there's like there's not enough seats for my kids. Yeah. Lopping out of the station wagon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true, it's funny.
Speaker 1:Craig, how about you?
Speaker 2:Let's see. My favorite game growing up was probably spades. Love a few car games, so spades, uno. Now I've learned this game, uno Attack, which is just such a vicious game. Oh gosh, it's just a whole new world but it's a pretty great game. But I do have some other games that I found myself entrenched in. Still do Wordle. You know, on the QT I don't hear a lot of people talking about it, but I still do Wordle. I have wordscapes, I have Monopoly. I'm doing that until, like, I run out of money or spins.
Speaker 1:But you know that's a vicious game right there. Yeah, I'm like, can we all just get along and share properties? Yeah, I'm usually the first one out in Monopoly.
Speaker 2:I would love to dig a little bit more into, I guess, as I'm thinking about. Many schools and districts are at the beginning of the year by this point when our audience has the opportunity to learn from and you know, garner, Jim's, from you, justin, it'll be January, you know 2024, about this time. So it'll be the start of the year, and people generally want to take on a sense of, you know, renewal, or they want to try new things, or they find a new energy. You know post-holiday winter, you know experiences, and so for folks who are going to listen to this today and they're thinking, okay, I may want to make a couple of tweaks here in my practice that will help to support the social motion wellbeing of the young people we serve, or help to advance. Or you know how their brains are continuing to grow and develop and they just want to try a couple of good strategies, or they want to incorporate, you know, one or two new practices that will help them to rejuvenate what they're doing. What would be your recommendations?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's great. That's another great question, great, Very thought provoking. So I think that I think, for one, the strategy we talked about earlier I think is pretty understated, right. I think that I mean you know teachers that do it really well and I think the teachers that don't necessarily do it it's not because they don't know the strategy, know how to use the strategy, it's just they get caught up in busy with their day and with their classes and life.
Speaker 3:So I think really being intentional about scaffolding expectations for kids I think is really critical. I think that they'll see a huge bank for their buck in terms of kids that are willing to take more risks, kids that are able to work through challenges more and also, as a huge byproduct, that really building strong relationships with kids. And I think that another thing that I always tell educators is you know well, really anyone, we're not talking about monumental ships. We don't have to think about these huge, drastic ships in our practice. Really, just a small ship A colleague of mine talks about a 10% shift is really all we need in our own lives or, I think, when we're trying to impact others.
Speaker 3:So I think being intentional about, you know, getting scaffolding expectations and I think, being really, really intentional with every day again, the power of one interacting with the kids that come through the door in a positive way. It doesn't have to be related to their class, it can be over anything, it can be hey, nice pair of shoes today, or hey, I really like the way your hair's done, or making some silly joke to them to build connection. So I think that being very intentional about that is very different than how we, you know, typically, as the year gets on, we just kind of go. So I think, as a reset, kind of resetting in that way, I think is a big bang for your buck.
Speaker 3:And again what we talk about, kind of the brain science behind that. I mean, yeah, it makes sense, right, we wanna build relationships with kids, but you know what happens when we say something nice to a kid that has really nothing to do with what we're talking about, or our class or whatever? You know what that a lot of times can do is switch that immediate negative thought pattern that that kid might have and get them scanning for good a little bit more than maybe they are at the current moment.
Speaker 1:So and again as the educator.
Speaker 3:What it does is it forces you to scan for good on a continual basis, which has a lot of, you know, stress and mental health benefits for you as the educator, but also in terms of building the relationships with students.
Speaker 1:Wow, all of that was really powerful and I'm still processing. May I ask a little bit of a clarification to see if I understand because I love what you've talked about with scaffolding, the expectations and what I thought about was a counselor I worked with last year who was trying to help a student attend more classes, like she was just cutting her classes, and so let's say that it was a block schedule, so there were 20 classes during the week. Well, the student needed to show up to 20 classes continually to graduate, but at the time they were only attending maybe five or six per week. So by scaffolding, am I understanding that it would be like that small shift? So if you're already at six, let's try for eight or 10 and then maybe try for a couple more, instead of that big jump to you have to attend everything, like I'm wondering if you can give a little bit of a. Is that the right thinking or do you have another example of what that might look like in practice?
Speaker 3:Well, no, I think it's all how you frame the example that you just gave. I think that's a good example, right? So let's play with that for a minute. So there are a couple of ways you can address a student issue such as that, right? So you can say Justin, you're missing, like every one of my classes, I need you here. Like, do you not care, do you not want to graduate?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 3:You can attack it from that angle, but that's oftentimes a self-defeating and kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The individual knows that no one wakes up every day wanting to not do the right thing. Right, as human beings, I have a firm belief that we wake up every day wanting to do the right thing. So how can we help that individual slowly start to remove some of the barriers that exist, which is that are getting in the way whereas they are not showing up for class? So I think, in terms of scaffolding, in that example it's kind of set in the expectation, like hey, justin, listen, I know things have been really hard for you, right? You've been a number of classes you haven't been able to make it to. Let's try to come tomorrow, all right, and here's the deal. If you need help or if you need an out or whatever, just kind of give me a little bit of a sign and I got you like I'm here to help you.
Speaker 3:A lot of times when we do that and when we scaffold things that way or for the sake of another example, like in class when we talked about how they can upcoming assignment or test or whatever is gonna be hard for a certain kid or certain kids Saying to them hey, listen, I know this is gonna be hard, I believe that you can do this, which is why I'm gonna challenge you, but hey, you may stumble a little bit and I got you Like, I'm here to help you through that and work with you through that.
Speaker 3:So I think in those examples what it does for the individual a lot of times, at one it allows them to say face a little bit, and for two it gets their minds into a better place whereas they may say to themselves, all right, well, no one's putting that, I know I haven't done. Well, can't flip a switch and all of a sudden be doing super, super well, 100%, the way people want me to. So how can I take some of those incremental steps? And then what help is there for me? So a lot of times that presets and preloads an individual's mind to understand that going in and it lessens their negative thought patterns and boundaries to being more successful.
Speaker 1:Thank you, that was really helpful. I appreciate that clarification Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I have a very hard question to ask you that I may have asked a couple of other people before Dustin what do you believe is your super popular?
Speaker 3:That's an interesting question too. So if I had to say anything right, if I had to really look at myself and what I feel like is the most valuable thing that I bring to the table, it's relationships. Without a doubt, I feel strongly about relationships. For one, I care deeply about the human condition and the human spirit, and I have a great belief that we all wake up every day wanting to do well. So when we're not doing well, that means things are getting in the way. So I think again. I think there's ways to build relationships that are motivating. I think there's ways to build relationships that are genuine and that, for me, that's my greatest strength. I think that I bring to the table. I always tell people I can help anyone make changes that they need to or that they want to make. If you give me a ping pong table.
Speaker 3:So if I can just play ping pong with someone and talk them through some things, we can make a lot of progress that way. So for me again, it's all about relationships and validating those relationships.
Speaker 1:So, justin, if one of our listeners wanted to reach out and get in contact with you directly to learn more about the services that you offer because you also offer parent coaching on special education and 504 evaluations, ieps, and so what you work with the parents, as well as educators and the students what would be some ways of being able to get a hold of you? Website, social media, email?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean email. My email is solutionsforeducationllccom and they can call me directly. My cell phone number is 267-291-4694. I feel, especially in today's day and age. What I promise is that your phone call won't go or text message won't go unanswered, and I will absolutely respond in a very timely fashion, for sure.
Speaker 1:Awesome, thank you.
Speaker 2:All right. So as we come to a close, you need to make sure you have written down, have you not taken? Well, it's going to show up in all of the information we have. Justin is pretty amazing. It was a very cerebral conversation, but I really enjoy just having some insights on how our brains are continuing to develop over time.
Speaker 2:What are the ways that educators, school leaders, clinicians and whatnot are working on behalf of all the young people we serve, as well as being in a community where we're still trying to figure this thing out? And we have some really great experts like Justin, and even Krista, who does this work, and she is definitely super brilliant in the way that she moves in the world. So I felt like I was taking a whole lot. So if you are like me, who will need to listen to this particular podcast three and four and five or six times just to get it all, it's all good. It's all good Like the water is fine. Live into it. But until then, loves, we are going to ask you to hold you in a whole bunch of folks who you hold dear. Hold it real tight and continue to do all the great things that add to your SEL life. We love you and we hope that you will listen to us again soon.
