SEL in EDU
SELinEDU Podcast is stories and insights from outstanding teachers, administrators, leaders, and students on all things Social Emotional Learning in education. These 30-40-minute podcasts are perfect for a commute, a nice cup of coffee, or a self-care walk.
SEL in EDU
079: Cultivating a School Culture Where Teachers Want to Stay with Jessica Holloway and Carrie Bishop
The teacher shortage has shifted from theory to reality. Schools now struggle to fill positions that once drew hundreds of applicants. This urgent challenge calls for rethinking recruitment and retention.
On this episode of the SELinEDU Podcast, iCarrie Bishop and Jessica Holloway share insights from their book Make Your School Irresistible: The Secret to Attracting and Retaining Great Teachers. Their message is clear: teachers don’t want pizza parties or casual Fridays; they want belonging, purpose, and partnership.
Carrie and Jessica reveal how retention begins long before recruitment, with every interaction signaling what it feels like to work in a school. From interview experiences to casual hallway conversations, small moments create the culture that helps teachers stay. They emphasize validating teachers’ real challenges, building authentic community, and fostering spaces where educators feel valued.
For disheartened teachers, the conversation also offers perspective: the right fit, whether in school, grade level, or subject, can reignite passion for the profession.
Tune in for a candid and practical conversation on how to build schools where teachers don’t just survive, they thrive.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
Connect with Carrie Bishop via the website, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
Connect with Jessica Holloway via the website, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
Purchase your copy of Make Your School Irresistible: The Secret to Attracting and Retaining Great Teachers.
Welcome to SEL in EDU, the podcast where we explore how educators bring social, emotional learning to life by sharing stories, strategies and sparks of inspiration. I'm your host, Dr Krista Lay, owner of Resonance Education. Thank you for joining us on this SEL journey on this SEL journey.
Speaker 2:I'm Anne co-host of Transparency in Teaching, a part of the Education Podcast Network. Just like the show you're listening to now, shows on the network are individually owned and opinions expressed may not reflect others. Find other interesting education podcasts at edupodcastnetworkcom.
Speaker 1:Harry Bishop currently serves as an instructional coach at a middle school in Chattanooga, tennessee. Previously, she served as an academic lead supporting school leadership teams at 19 schools serving students in grades K-12, and as a school-based instructional coach. Jessica Holloway is an instructional coach focusing on creative and innovative practices that provide transformative learning experiences for students. She coaches teachers and leaders in STEM education, computer science and project-based learning. Carrie and Jessica are authors of Make your School Irresistible the Secret to Attracting and Retaining Great Teachers. Welcome back SEL and EDU family. I am very excited that we have the amazing Carrie and Jess here with us.
Speaker 3:Hi, great to be here with you today, krista. Thankful for this opportunity Hello everybody.
Speaker 4:I'm Jessica, the co-author with Carrie and everything she said, and more.
Speaker 1:I'd like to start off by asking you both what motivated you personally to write this book.
Speaker 3:This book really started for me. As a coach and a mentor, I've seen so many incredibly talented teachers lose heart, and not just because of the workload, but because they didn't really feel seen and valued and supported. Jessica and I were both tired of hearing about retention strategies and jeans days and pizza parties, when what teachers really want is a sense of belonging and purpose and a partnership. We wanted to write a book for school leaders that was practical and that provides ways that they could build cultures where teachers don't want to leave, not with one-time fixes or band-aids, but with long-term, people-first systems that invite people to join in the amazing work that's happening in our schools and that encourages leaders to invest in the people that are under their care and that inspires educators to pass that forward, because there's a handoff eventually and we're handing off to the next generation and we want to keep that momentum going and we want to develop ways that we can keep this long term.
Speaker 4:We had lots of conversations about this. We've had the privilege to work together and so we've had some shared experiences. And then we've had some experiences beyond our time together and there was a moment where I felt like being in a coaching role and Carrie with being in several teacher leadership roles before she was in a coaching role and Carrie would being in several teacher leadership roles before she was in a coaching role. You were privy to insights that sometimes are never shared with the people who need to know. It felt like I had this secret knowledge of things that were happening that I needed to share. Carrie and I talked about a lot of that. We would ask them have you shared this? Have you talked to this person? A lot of times it just they didn't feel comfortable. They didn't know how to say it. They would just leave in silence and not really give the leader an opportunity to change, for whatever reason. No blame on either side, but that was just how it would happen.
Speaker 4:Over my 20 years in education, I've seen the applicant pool go from 100 applicants per position to one applicant or none for a position. We really have to rethink about how we approach staffing and inviting people in. It's an invitation. I have choice. It's a competitive market now and the power is in the potential candidates for your school. How do you make your school a place where people want to be? That way, you're having lots of applicants, you're finding the right people who want to be at your school and stay at your school.
Speaker 1:You bring up an excellent point in that when I first interviewed for my job 27 years ago as a social studies teacher, that's what I worried about is oh, there are so many social studies teachers, but I didn't worry about the fact that there might be a lack of teachers just wanting to apply for positions. And now it is a two-way street where you need to make yourself as an organization look, feel and be desirable. And, carrie, you said something too that really resonated with me that the staff are under the care of the leader with me, that the staff are under the care of the leader Often think about students being under the care of the educator. Can you talk more about what that means, especially now that you're in that leadership position?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. If we look at the Tennessee Instructional Leadership Standards, it's very clear that as a leader, we have a responsibility to continue to grow and develop the educators that are under our care. A big part of leadership is thinking about how to continue growing not just the instructional practice, but the whole person. Sometimes we're focused on the instructional pedagogy of a leader or of a potential leader or of an educator, but the reality is, when we try to separate those out, I think we do a disservice and what we want to do is grow the whole person. One of the things we seek to do in our book is to encourage leaders to get to know all of the many skill sets and giftings that our educators bring with them to our community as we seek to change lives together.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I mentioned to you before we started recording was a book that I read months ago that was so profound for me, called Unreasonable Hospitality, by Will Goddard, and he is a restaurant owner and was looking at the ways that he could turn it from just a food experience into a life experience. As I'm reading your book, I kept thinking this is the educational version of Unreasonable Hospitality. This is a book that all educators should hold on to and refer back to, because it's filled with so many applicable, transferable strategies that people could use and it makes sense. It's so practical, it's not theoretical. You can tell that you put in your life experiences and sometimes I read books and there's quotes from people. I'm like this is an actual person, but I can say these are actual people because I know them. So that was so exciting and you give these empathy scenarios that allow people that maybe there's a part of the book that they haven't had personal experience with, but now you're making it come to life for them.
Speaker 3:That was my favorite part of the book to write.
Speaker 4:Mine too yeah.
Speaker 1:Why was it your favorite, and can you talk more about what that process was for you both?
Speaker 4:We wanted to share real examples. They've happened, but sometimes the further we get away from the classroom, or further we get away from being a teacher or having these experiences, we forget what it's like, and that's just a human thing. We're so caught up in our blinders of this is what's going on in my world. We often overlook and forget what's happening on the other side, and so we wanted to provide these scenarios to help leaders build empathy for what experiences have been like and be able to have a moment to say, okay, if this happened, here's what I might do now that I know these things that I've read in the chapter. So it's really an opportunity to apply things that they've just read about, but also consider what are the people experiencing that are in my building? What are the people experiencing that I'm bringing into the interview? What are the people experiencing that want to grow in their leadership journey? It's really thinking about others' experiences while they're in your care.
Speaker 3:I agree completely with everything Jessica just said.
Speaker 3:For me, that was my favorite part of the book to write and I think the reason why is it just gave us a space to share these real experiences that have been entrusted to us by teachers, because we were their coach, we were that trusting person that they could share their heart with, and it's like I had these stories entrusted to me and they carry so much weight but they had gone unheard and this was our chance to share those and we felt it was really important for school leaders to hear those.
Speaker 3:But also, that's the piece of the book that's a little different. We don't just want educators and leaders to walk away with strategies. We also want them to deepen their understanding of what it feels like to be a teacher in today's schools. Even in the busyness and I'm in the throes of that busyness myself at the moment even in the busyness of leadership and all of the many decisions that you have to make and trying to prioritize that to-do list and figure out how to get it all done that, these short stories, these empathy episodes, will help school leaders pause and reflect and stay grounded in what really matters most, which is prioritizing people, what really matters most, which is prioritizing people.
Speaker 1:A lot of what you're saying feels very meaningful for me, having been an instructional coach for five years as well for the district, and I often felt like an island unto myself.
Speaker 1:I like Jessica you said I was privy to hearing where the teachers were at and where the administrators were at, and I could pinpoint what the disconnect was, but it wasn't always my place to be the one to do that communication. You've referenced that in the book. There were times when I would say have you shared that? No, they won't listen to me, because of whatever experience happened, or because of an experience that didn't even involve that person, but they had been burnt so many times before that they made the assumption it was going to be like that. I see you nodding your heads too, because you're collecting these stories, and from an administrator point of view, when I would be able to talk holistically, not with any names, but here's what's happening. I got to hear the stories of where administrators had been burned too, with things pardoned and made them be more resistant. How did those pieces come into play with where you started the book, because it started with going out on interviews and what questions you're asking people to keep the rapport and relationship going with the staff you have.
Speaker 4:So I think a little bit of that. We started in the middle. Honestly, we started in the middle of when you have people at your school, what are you doing to make it a place where they want to stay. But then we had conversations about it starts way before they get to you. So if you're only thinking about investing in people, then that's a short game you're working on.
Speaker 4:How can you really think about the life cycle of a teacher or staff member when they come to your school? It starts by recruitment and we talk about recruitment in informal and formal recruitment because, honestly, word of mouth and reputation is informal recruitment. When you have a conversation with someone and it comes to an event at your school, that's informal recruitment because you don't know, you might have a future teacher sitting with their family that may be coming to work there one day. You just don't realize the what ifs and the possibilities that are happening all the time. It's the recruitment to the interview experience, because the interview experience will sometimes make or break whether someone says yes or no to your school. If they have a really bad interview experience, they're thinking this is not the experience I want to have every day coming to work here.
Speaker 4:And then, when they finally do get to your school, how do you make sure they feel welcome? How do you invest in their growth? And then eventually the reality is and sometimes this is really hard you have to let those really great teachers go. Or those teachers are going to move on beyond you, or they want to move up in their own leadership journey. And if you're just holding on to them and preventing that growth? But if you do invest in them, you do help them grow. When they leave and they talk about the positive experience they have at your school, all of a sudden now they're brand ambassadors for your school and for you as a leader.
Speaker 1:When I was reading those pieces early on, it was also talking about those unintended consequences it had me thinking about when I'm working with educators on being able to model SEL for their students. It's often what do you need to do to show up as the best version of yourself so the students can thrive and become the best version of themselves? And I couldn't help but think that your book has all of this adult SEL infused through it. We don't always have the best day. There was a vignette about a principal who probably was having a rough day going into an interview and just unloaded on a spiral right, went downhill with oh this is happening and this is happening. And I bet if they could reel that back in, be like oh no. So I'm curious for you personally as leaders what are some things that you do to continue to show up as the best version of yourselves for the people that you're serving?
Speaker 3:As a new leader, one thing I'm really trying to do, especially because I'm in Christian education now I have left public school, so I do have my quiet time each morning, spend time in prayer and scripture, making sure that I'm planning the truth in my heart, making sure I'm getting grounded as I'm going into my day.
Speaker 3:Throughout the day, it may be breath, prayers. I may have lots of people coming in, taking time to drink plenty of water, making sure I'm getting good nutrition, making sure I'm getting enough sleep, making sure that I'm communicating and relying on my support system my husband and the other people in my life close friends and family that will help me that I'm not walking this alone. And as we think about SEL, that's going to look different for each person, but when we are not in a good place, we can't possibly lead ourselves well, much less lead anyone else, and so it's so important to understand what that looks like for each individual and then really just lean into that and know that and be self-aware enough. I think you can't pour from an empty cup. We've all heard that. We've all probably tried to pour from an empty cup and found that to be like, but even before we jumped on this call I'm meal prepping for the week, because I know that in order to get that good nutrition, I've got to do some of those things on the weekend.
Speaker 4:What I've learned over time especially being in a coaching role where you invest in other people so much because that's your focus you want other people to grow is ensuring that I'm also investing in myself. So that way I have my own individual success marks, outcomes and goals that I want as much as I'm investing in other people. I've also made it intentional to put planning time for myself in my calendar, because when I don't do that, I give all of my time away. So I do gift myself personal planning time to get things done that I need to get done, because I will say yes to everybody's requests. I know myself well enough to protect my time in my calendar. But I've also protected time in my calendar to connect with my support system and whether that's 15 minutes where I'm just eating lunch and I'm looking at somebody else that's my friend and they can just make funny faces at me and make me smile and laugh just not being alone for a little while or if it's just a check-in call, but making sure to schedule those out. I know that sounds very rigid, but the reality is, if you don't schedule time to check in with friends and in your support system, it won't happen. So we make time for what we feel is important. It's important, so put it on calendar.
Speaker 4:But I also think there's a part in a chapter where we talk about the mask we wear, and I think we have to stop wearing the mask as a leader and allow ourselves to be human and say I don't have it together today. It's okay, I'm going to do the best I can today and allow space to not be perfect, allow space to not have it all figured out. When we do that, it creates a safe space for our teachers to come in and remove their mask and say today is not my best day, but I'm going to give you all I do have today, and just I could use some care and kindness today. Have today, and just I could use some care and kindness today. And if we do that and we realize we're humans all of us it's going to make it feel like a place where you can be your authentic self and know that you're going to have ups and downs personally and professionally, but we're going to all work through it together because we're all there for the same purpose and the same vision with the school.
Speaker 1:So I couldn't help. But while you were talking, I'm smiling inside and outside and I'm going to go a little personal here for a minute and say that to those who are listening. Jessica is an ASCD Emerging Leader as well, and so we've known each other for or of each other for a very long time I'd say like six or seven years maybe. And this is just how it works in the EL community there's 500 people and you bump into people and many of us are introverts, which is very interesting.
Speaker 1:Jess and I had the opportunity to sit together at a conference about two years ago two and a half years ago maybe. Now we're like shenanigan sisters together. We weren't rude or disrespectful during this, so I do need to put that out. It was very professional during the session, but we had so much fun learning together and connecting. You talk about having those safe spaces. To have people like that. It made all the difference, and I think that was a moment for both of us where we bonded, and there's inside jokes from that session that keep popping up two and a half years later. And I'm thinking that because you wrote a book together and knowing the amount of time it takes to do that, Carrie you probably have some shenanigan sisters going on too with Jess being able to show people a lighter side too, and that you can show people that lighter side when you are taking care of yourself.
Speaker 3:For sure. I think also just that deep sense of connection, I think that camaraderie that I know over the years Jessica and I guess have known each other about 11 or 12 years at this point. So that deep sense of connection, I've seen this person on their best day, I've seen this person on their worst day and I'm still going to show up for them. I'm still going to be there to cheer them on, to support them. Going to be there to cheer them on, to support them. I'm going to be there to remind them who they are and what they're called to and what they're called to do, and that they have everything they need and that if they need something from me, I'm there to bring it. If we can build that sense of community in our schools, we can go farther together than we ever could alone.
Speaker 3:One of my mentors talks about you. Look at an atom. It has a certain amount of energy, it has a certain amount of weight, but you put them together and it forms molecules and they become something that they can never do on their own. That has really stuck with me. It's the kind of schools we want to build. As a coach, I know it's what we've tried to be with our teachers as we partnered with them, with our school leaders, as we partnered with them. Now, as I look at the team that I have the absolute honor of leading this year, I hope that they'll form those bonds that allow them to do things together that they could not do individually like you said, krista, there becomes these inside jokes, these things that you can reference.
Speaker 4:That brings you together and you can lighten a tough day by referencing one of those jokes. And we refer to that when we talk about the power of physical presence in the book. You can't have shared experience or develop those kind of inside jokes if you're never around the people in which you work. And it doesn't take very long, sometimes it happens very quickly in the hallway or at the beginning of a meeting. I'll never forget saying the word squircle because they never let me forget squircle because I was thinking square and circle at the same time. I meant circle, but now every meeting they're like are we getting in a squircle today? And I'm like squircle, squircle forever.
Speaker 4:It was just one of those things that it only took a moment. But if you're not there and you don't laugh at being human and, you know, engage with it, then you miss the opportunity to build those trusting relationships. So it is really important to be present. Sometimes it's just I'm going to eat my food in here in this lunchroom today and just listen in to what's going on and something silly happens. We can laugh about it. Or I'm just going to be out here among everybody as we dismiss kids, and just being present you give the opportunity to have those shared experiences that really can help build a sense of community.
Speaker 1:That feels like a mic drop moment there. If you're not showing up, you don't get to have that resonation. That could happen later. About a year ago I was working with some friends in Illinois and we were at a doorway and my friend was standing in the doorway talking to me. I was in front of the glass pane next to the doorway and for me there was no bars, it was a full glass pane. And so my friend inside the room was like hey, krista, and I turned to walk through the doorway and banged into the glass and just fell right to the floor.
Speaker 1:All they need to do is send me a meme of a kid walking into a glass or an animal or something and it sends all of us to a tailspin. But those are those moments where it will forever be funny and remind us of a shared event. And, just like when you were at this last conference, you sent me some pictures that reminded us of a shared event that we had. That was just really funny and those pieces live on and I think we don't always take advantage of the opportunities to be present because we don't think about the future implications or fun that could come from just that one moment or the investment. Yes, thank you, thank you. Yes, thinking about all the good that can come from that and how that really fills up a relationship.
Speaker 1:It reminds me of a part of the book where you were talking about mentors, and there was another vignette where a new teacher was there. It wasn't just one person who was their assigned mentor, because that happened to me While the person was nice, we just didn't click and it was very like here's the check boxes, but in this vignette there was a new person who came in to check on them every day. I would like to think that people chose to do that because of the way the culture was. It wasn't a hey, who's going to go see them on day one, who's going to go see them on day two, who's day three? But it becomes a.
Speaker 1:This is a culture of care about each other, and now you just don't have one mentor, but it becomes a. This is a culture of care about each other, and now you just don't have one mentor, but you have many over time. When you think about, then parts of the book that came very easily to you, are there any parts that you're like oh, this is going to be a little bit harder to write, or this feels a little bit more like a sticky issue because it hits close to home, maybe, or because it's a part you just felt so passionately that you wanted to get it right for other leaders.
Speaker 4:I think one part that I went and spiraled in for a while was we have a part called extinguishing the bonfire of negativity. We didn't want to just cover it up with toxic positivity and address the reality that there's going to be negativity. It's going to exist negativity. It's going to exist, but how can you address it when it's small before it becomes this big bonfire and spreads and starts encompassing other things and it's real easy to get wrapped up in all the things that aren't going or you're frustrated with.
Speaker 4:It was a part that needed to be said. But thinking about how to say it and dress in a way that doesn't just come off, flip it and say just smile, everything's fine, because there are days and nothing is fine and it's a tough day. But don't spiral into this is the worst place to work, this is the worst team to be on, this is the worst, and just become a big bonfire of negativity, just trying to keep that contained, because we've all seen the dumpster fire memes and sometimes that's how it feels. But how can we keep that contained and address the things that need to be addressed so it doesn't turn into that and that's not how people are viewing where they work or their experiences at work.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that because it validates where people are at in the moment, but then also helps them think about how to manage that it doesn't spiral out of control and become something bigger than what they intended.
Speaker 3:And one of the stories in that particular section is an experience I had as a coach. One of the things I've learned from that experience is the importance of validating the feeling the teacher may be experiencing some frustration. Sometimes, when teachers come and share their heart with us and we're listening whether that's in the coaching seat or in a leadership seat they just need you to listen and validate that some of the frustrations, their feelings, are valid. First of all, the particular teacher in the story that we share in that section. He interpreted students cheating on a test as disrespect. For me as a classroom teacher, when students had cheated on something and I've caught them, I didn't interpret it that way, but it was important for me as his coach to understand that is how he felt and as soon as I could wrap my head around the fact that for him that felt like disrespect, then I could begin to help him walk through that door and move towards taking actions that were going to help us accomplish our purpose. It was so important that I hear his true feelings and that I get to the heart of that and then that I validate. That's a hard place to be, because I know how much he put into his teaching. If you're feeling disrespected and you're feeling like you're pouring in, and as soon as I could empathize, like we encourage our leaders to do, then I could help walk him through the door of. So here's a thought of how we could move forward, because that is our goal. Do that really matters? Because if we just extinguish it, yeah, we can get people to stop saying the thing or doing the thing, but if we do it in a way that they grow and in this case, this teacher, I was because of our relationship and because of the way that we walked it out. I'll be honest, I was having this conversation in the middle of a middle school dance in my office and I literally needed to be in there chaperoning a middle school dance. But I knew that this need that had walked in my office was more pressing and I was like, okay, I've got to stop what I'm doing, I've got to listen because he is not okay. I've got to help him process his feelings so we can move forward. And it's hard. These conversations don't show up when it's convenient. Sometimes they show up and you have to be like, okay, I've got to hear this now because I've got to be there for this person to help them.
Speaker 3:But because of the choices that this teacher made as we talked about how he might respond to the students who had cheated on the test, he realized and grew as an educator. And students grew because he, rather than accusing and rather than tearing them down, he believed in them. At the heart of that feeling is a desire for something, and if we can listen to what they're longing for and what they feel they've lost, and to him, he felt he had lost the opportunity to measure what students really knew and he's longing for students to want to learn and to take their learning seriously. I heard that in his sharing and then was able to walk him through. So this is what I hear that you want, and here's the way I think we can walk there together. That you want and here's the way I think we can walk there together. I just am thankful that he was willing to trust me and give it a try, because I believe that it led him and his students to a greater place than we would have gotten to had he taken a different approach.
Speaker 1:One of the pieces that I'm taking from that story relates back to what Jess said about the power of presence and being there, because you admitted that you knew you had to be somewhere else and you have to prioritize.
Speaker 1:And that moment where you were able to walk with him allowed him to build a deeper relationship with his entire class and likely changed the way that he thinks about different pieces of teaching and learning in the future. And that relates to one of your other stories in the book about somebody who had the courage to ask their admin to come in and see a lesson and the admin, in their busyness, was like I'll try and yeah, and I understand that busyness, but then the empathy with understanding the courage it takes for somebody to do that and how important it must have been to extend that invitation to really try to think about how can I make this work, to show up for that person and to be present for them. What advice would you either give teachers or leaders so you can pick, based on a big aha that you've had in your experiences as educators?
Speaker 4:I will say one thing I talk about with teachers when they felt safe enough to share that I think I'm going to quit, or I've just had enough, or my heart's not in it anymore.
Speaker 4:Sometimes I talk with them about trying a different school location, a different grade level, a different content, trying something else before just walking away from the profession.
Speaker 4:Because fit really does matter and just because you're an educator, not every school is your fit. So figuring out where it is that you feel like you belong, where you have value, where you can really pour into the mission and vision of that school and where you feel fulfilled. I've seen teachers who have done that, tried something else before leaving the profession and it's been a complete change in experience for them. They've found the place that they feel like they belong and that they can bring value and rekindle their joy of the profession. Sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes they go somewhere else and it's just not. Maybe education in its current form is not the place for them. And then I honor that and say you take care of you. But for a lot of educators, especially ones that have only worked in one place or in one grade level or one content area, I always say consider trying something else before you just completely walk away from the profession.
Speaker 1:I think that's really solid advice, Carrie. What would you?
Speaker 3:recommend I've learned is that education is one of the greatest joys of my life, and so the opportunity to walk alongside other people and to step into so many of these moments in their lives, the opportunity to be with parents through some really sacred moments, and with students and families it's an incredible experience. It's one of the greatest joys Aside from being a wife and a mother. It's absolutely the greatest joy of my life being a wife and a mother. It's absolutely the greatest joy of my life. However, there have been peaks and valleys in my own career and I guess my advice would be if you're feeling disillusioned, if you're in a tough season, remember, like those feelings, they are feelings and those are indicators. They're telling us things about maybe some adjustments we need to make, either in our own lives personally, like we talked about healthy habits or maybe in our setting, our surroundings. We may need to make some changes. Like Jessica mentioned, there may be somewhere else that you will find to be your current place. That's going to be a better place to serve for you, and I know there's educators who also end up in auxiliary roles in curriculum or writing or other things. Just because this is a hard moment doesn't mean that it won't pass and that you won't look back on it, and have grown a lot of strength from that moment as someone who recently chose to leave a district I had been with for 20 years.
Speaker 3:One of the reasons I think that this book was hard for me at points is that I felt a lot of these things and that I personally have experienced some of them and knew that increasingly I was not really where I was supposed to be and had that sat with that discontentment and just eventually had the courage. It's hard because, no matter what situation you're in, sometimes it's scary to step out and try something new, but in doing that you take all that you've learned with you and sometimes the experiences that you're going through that are hard. They're preparing you. That's what I've learned, too is some of those experiences that I had as a teacher. Even a first year teacher had a little experience as a first year teacher where a first year leader came into my classroom and yelled at my students in front of me and it was really bizarre and awkward and not her best moment but also made me feel a lot of ways. But now here I am, a first-year leader and I carry that with me and that prepared me for how I would not do something that disempowers a teacher in front of students, and I had a ton to learn.
Speaker 3:That first year I had a lot of gaps in my knowledge and my skill set and I needed someone to come alongside me and believe in me, and I want to be that for other people. I was far from the teacher that I eventually grew to be. I'm thankful that in that moment, my advice to people would be I hope that you'll continue to say what is this teaching me? What can I learn? Because I don't think any of it's wasted. I think it all prepares us for the future. I had a conversation with one of my teachers last week and I said you might be sitting on this side someday, you might be in this seat, so I want you to know this, because we're always building the capacity. I'm always assuming that I'm going to be passing the torch. The handoff is coming and they're going to be the leaders of tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Thank you. That makes me also think, then, about our students coming into education and then eventually being the ones that we're passing this torch off to, and that there's choices. We have a lot of choices and thinking about what we're learning along the way and in the journey, and how we can continue to show up as the best version of ourselves to allow other people to thrive. To show up as the best version of ourselves to allow other people to thrive. The theme for this season, for this year, has been music, and so I'm curious what song or what band is currently on repeat on your playlist right now?
Speaker 4:I recently discovered a lesser known country artist called Taylor Austin Dye and I have just really been enjoying. She tells a really good story and most of her songs are it's a mini novel. As far as I'm concerned, I keep hoping she's going to make it big, because she's really great.
Speaker 3:So I'm a pretty big Chris Tomlin fan. I could also go Brandon Lake or Ann Wilson. Just listened to a bunch of Ann Wilson yesterday on my drive to Murfreesboro, thank you.
Speaker 1:How can people get ahold of you? I'm going to put this in the show notes so people can go down and read that. But if somebody is listening to this on their drive in and they're like, oh, I need to get ahold of these folks because I want to talk more about the book or I want to pick their brain or do some coaching, what's a great way to get a hold of you both?
Speaker 4:I have the same social media handle across most platforms. It's at Holloway Reader because little known secret, I am a very avid reader. I like to do a lot of reading. Fairly easy to connect there. I'm also on LinkedIn so we can connect there as well.
Speaker 3:My email at work is cbishop at pointacademyorg. I am not as good at all that as Jessica is, but definitely would love the opportunity to connect with people.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your experiences and your expertise. I can't wait for this to go out and for the time that it took to write the book too, because it really is fabulous, and I appreciate the insights and the tips that you're giving people to consider at every single point of the work, and I think it's not just for school leaders but for those of us who want a community like that we can do some of these actionable pieces and build that community. We don't have to necessarily wait for a school leader to come along and do that. I appreciate all of the thought and the time and the work that you put in and for coming on to share with the community today. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having us and thank you for all you do.
Speaker 1:Thank you again for tuning in to this episode of SEL. In EDU, at Residence Education, we equip educators with knowledge, skills and resources to design learning experiences that foster students' academic, social and emotional growth. We believe that every small action to foster connections and growth creates ripples shaping the future.
